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 We need to trade Suh. 
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Post We need to trade Suh.
Suh has 1 year remaining with a 12 million base and 10 million remaining on his signing bonus.

If we resign him, we are going to have to make him the highest paid DT in NFL History. We already have a very highly paid QB and the highest paid WR in NFL History. 2 of these contracts are enough to break a teams cap budget. 3 would destroy it.

Consider how many wins did Suh directly contribute to. Can we say he is directly responsible for even 2 wins per year? Probably not. If we resign him, it just continues to worsen our cap problems and make them last even longer. We are currently 4 million over the expected cap for 2014.

So, if we trade him, we will still have a cap charge of 10 million. But, we will save $12 Million on his base salary. So, after the 4 million cap overage, we would be under the cap by $8 Million.

Now, we can get a 1st and a 3rd for him without it being greedy. The Browns are $40 Million under the cap for 2014. And they have the picks they could trade for him. TBay also has plenty of cap space and Lovie might like Suh for his D-line. Then there is Jerry Jones who would do whatever he had to do to make enough cap room for Suh. And Marinelli is his DC.

We could end up with two 1st rounders, a 2nd rounder, two 3rd rounders in the first three rounds. This draft is one of the deepest drafts ever with over 100 juniors declared for the draft. We should be able to draft a legitimate starting DT, 2 WR's, 1 TE, and a Center in the first 3 rounds.

By trading Suh, our cap issues are over for a while. And after his $10 Million guaranteed is off the books for the 2015 season, we will have the money for resigning Fairley and everyone else to good deals because we can. Not, because we have to resign someone to clear space.


February 11th, 2014, 11:28 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
Oh. I almost forgot this. With Suh gone, the little girly teams in our division that like to call us dirty because of Suh will have to shut up and take their pamprin.


February 11th, 2014, 11:30 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
Wellllll...
The illustrious "trade Suh for picks" monster has reared its ugly head. Trade Stafford, trade Johnson, trade Suh, trade trade trade.
There's a reason why these things work out poorly usually. One team is always raped and I don't think the team taking it is going to be the team that Suh goes to. What I think you're saying, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that Suh should be traded for a late first rounder and a third rounder. Automatically, I can deduce that it would be a late first round pick because the worst teams can't afford to give up that pick for a DT. If anyone bites, it would be a team that is only DT away from being contenders, which leaves us with teams that are already pretty good and will be drafting late this year.
Now suppose the Lions whiff on that first round pick like they have many times and essentially you've got a practice player and a third round pick for Suh. Third round player maybe becomes a solid contributor, but nothing special... Like say... a Glover Quinn type. When you look at it, you're going to say "Wow, Mayhew really got taken in that trade for Suh, fire Mayhew."
What you're doing is taking cold hard cash in your hand and buying lottery tickets that you hope will amount to the cash you had in your hand when it's all said and done. I'm willing to bet that 95% of the time, the cash you had before was greater than the cash you have after the lotto. It would be an unwise investment at best and a complete catastrophe at worst. A move that doesn't net the Lions a player at least as good as Suh would set them back considerably. Are there any players as good as Ndomukong Suh in this draft that anyone is 100% sure about? If the answer is no, then take the picks you're given and work with it. Extending him will help a lot, but getting rid of him is just a bad football move. If you want to let his contract run out and get him out of here, fine. But I hear he's working on an extension to create cap space, which is just fine with me.


February 11th, 2014, 11:47 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.

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February 11th, 2014, 11:49 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
Yeah we'd only save about $3M if we trade him and we'll still be over the cap.


February 12th, 2014, 12:12 am
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
inheritedlionsfan wrote:
Yeah we'd only save about $3M if we trade him and we'll still be over the cap.


We would would save $12 Million. Not 3.


February 12th, 2014, 12:19 am
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
HechePipe wrote:
Wellllll...
The illustrious "trade Suh for picks" monster has reared its ugly head. Trade Stafford, trade Johnson, trade Suh, trade trade trade.
There's a reason why these things work out poorly usually. One team is always raped and I don't think the team taking it is going to be the team that Suh goes to. What I think you're saying, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that Suh should be traded for a late first rounder and a third rounder. Automatically, I can deduce that it would be a late first round pick because the worst teams can't afford to give up that pick for a DT. If anyone bites, it would be a team that is only DT away from being contenders, which leaves us with teams that are already pretty good and will be drafting late this year.
Now suppose the Lions whiff on that first round pick like they have many times and essentially you've got a practice player and a third round pick for Suh. Third round player maybe becomes a solid contributor, but nothing special... Like say... a Glover Quinn type. When you look at it, you're going to say "Wow, Mayhew really got taken in that trade for Suh, fire Mayhew."
What you're doing is taking cold hard cash in your hand and buying lottery tickets that you hope will amount to the cash you had in your hand when it's all said and done. I'm willing to bet that 95% of the time, the cash you had before was greater than the cash you have after the lotto. It would be an unwise investment at best and a complete catastrophe at worst. A move that doesn't net the Lions a player at least as good as Suh would set them back considerably. Are there any players as good as Ndomukong Suh in this draft that anyone is 100% sure about? If the answer is no, then take the picks you're given and work with it. Extending him will help a lot, but getting rid of him is just a bad football move. If you want to let his contract run out and get him out of here, fine. But I hear he's working on an extension to create cap space, which is just fine with me.


There is a day of reckoning coming. We can trade Suh and make that an easier day. Or resign him and make that day excruciatingly painful. Take your choice.


February 12th, 2014, 12:22 am
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
Two things are for sure.

1. We can not pay Suh $22 Million this year.

2. Because Suh has us over the barrel, we either trade him, or Suh is going to get $50 million guaranteed in a new contract.


February 12th, 2014, 12:26 am
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
BillySims wrote:
HechePipe wrote:
Wellllll...
The illustrious "trade Suh for picks" monster has reared its ugly head. Trade Stafford, trade Johnson, trade Suh, trade trade trade.
There's a reason why these things work out poorly usually. One team is always raped and I don't think the team taking it is going to be the team that Suh goes to. What I think you're saying, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that Suh should be traded for a late first rounder and a third rounder. Automatically, I can deduce that it would be a late first round pick because the worst teams can't afford to give up that pick for a DT. If anyone bites, it would be a team that is only DT away from being contenders, which leaves us with teams that are already pretty good and will be drafting late this year.
Now suppose the Lions whiff on that first round pick like they have many times and essentially you've got a practice player and a third round pick for Suh. Third round player maybe becomes a solid contributor, but nothing special... Like say... a Glover Quinn type. When you look at it, you're going to say "Wow, Mayhew really got taken in that trade for Suh, fire Mayhew."
What you're doing is taking cold hard cash in your hand and buying lottery tickets that you hope will amount to the cash you had in your hand when it's all said and done. I'm willing to bet that 95% of the time, the cash you had before was greater than the cash you have after the lotto. It would be an unwise investment at best and a complete catastrophe at worst. A move that doesn't net the Lions a player at least as good as Suh would set them back considerably. Are there any players as good as Ndomukong Suh in this draft that anyone is 100% sure about? If the answer is no, then take the picks you're given and work with it. Extending him will help a lot, but getting rid of him is just a bad football move. If you want to let his contract run out and get him out of here, fine. But I hear he's working on an extension to create cap space, which is just fine with me.


There is a day of reckoning coming. We can trade Suh and make that an easier day. Or resign him and make that day excruciatingly painful. Take your choice.

If you're talking about trading a pro-bowl player who was voted most feared in the NFL and trading him for another pro-bowl caliber player at a different position of need, then that could make the day easier.
However, dealing the guy for picks is just not very smart. You're taking an absolute asset and trading it for an asset that could be as valuable as the asset you're giving up... Maybe... One day...
I hear what you're saying... If you're going to give him up, get something for him. However, it's not even a foregone conclusion that he doesn't want to play for the Lions. If I had it on good authority that he didn't want to be a Lion and wanted out, sure.

Look at it this way:
He plays here for either $22M or he doesn't play here for $19M. If he leaves next year, the Lions are going to get compensatory picks and tons of cap room. He leaves this year and the Lions are are going to be paying $19M for a player that doesn't exist and 2 draft picks. Sorry but if I'm this coaching staff and front office, I'll take Suh this year. And if he really is leaving, draft a project DT this year and rake in that cap money and compensatory picks next year. I'm thinking Suh would draw a 2nd round comp. pick. Get the extra high round pick after he leaves, keep Suh for one more year, and make 2015 a spending year.


February 12th, 2014, 1:08 am
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
The cap will be under with room to make moves soon enough, even without Suh restructuring or redoing a new deal. These doom and gloom scenarios are always on people's minds but why? Will he eventually get old and break down? yes, but not right now. He's in his 5th year and still dominating. And you can say he wasn't responsible for wins because of the stats, but if you look at the performance, he was very responsible for either winning games or keeping us in them at the very least. He was responsible for all but 3 of the interceptions this year on defense. He didn't catch them himself but he forced bad throws.

Remove him from the line and see how scary our line isn't. We're not in a rebuilding mode. Cleveland is. You think our secondary is bad now, remove Suh and see how bad they really are and then we can get your wish of rebuilding again Billy. Because that's exactly where we'll be.


February 12th, 2014, 1:17 am
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
BillySims wrote:
inheritedlionsfan wrote:
Yeah we'd only save about $3M if we trade him and we'll still be over the cap.


We would would save $12 Million. Not 3.


Your figures are wrong. Suh is due $22M and would have $19M in dead money if he was released or traded this off season. If he was a June first cut they could split it between this year and next but that would eliminate any savings to sign FAs. If they don't extend him this season he can void 2015 and the Lions would still have to account for 9M in dead money and get nothing but a comp pick for him at best.


February 12th, 2014, 1:39 am
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
The NFL is about talent, an area the Lions have sorely lacked in since the turn of the century. Suh is a Pro Bowl player, team captain, and the identity of the DL which is the strength and identity of the defense. You might want to keep him.

BillySims wrote:
Consider how many wins did Suh directly contribute to. Can we say he is directly responsible for even 2 wins per year?


If he is directly responsible for 2 wins for year, as a DT, you do anything you can to keep him. 2 wins can be the difference between playoffs (10-6) and mediocrity (8-8).

It is hard to measure the true value of a DT until they are gone. If Suh is no longer double teamed virtually every play, then Fairley, Ansah and the rest of the group isn't as productive as they would have been. There is an indirect impact of his presence that you aren't accounting for.

I remember when everyone wanted to let Shaun Rogers go, I made the same point as above. They cheered after the 2007 when he left for Cleveland. I'm pretty damn sure most regretted it when the Lions didn't win a single game the following season. And Rogers was no Suh.

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February 12th, 2014, 10:01 am
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
Trade Suh for unproven players....with a history of bad draft picks......not a fan.

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February 12th, 2014, 5:15 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
BillySims wrote:
inheritedlionsfan wrote:
Yeah we'd only save about $3M if we trade him and we'll still be over the cap.


We would would save $12 Million. Not 3.



Suh also has 9M in bonuses due next season whether he's with the team or not. That money would accelerate onto this cap if we cut or trade him.

His dead money, money he'd count against this years cap if cut or traded is $19,475,000 and his current cap hit is $22,41,500. That's a total savings of $2,973,500 if we cut or trade him. Not $12M.


February 12th, 2014, 5:27 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
rao wrote:
BillySims wrote:
inheritedlionsfan wrote:
Yeah we'd only save about $3M if we trade him and we'll still be over the cap.


We would would save $12 Million. Not 3.


Your figures are wrong. Suh is due $22M and would have $19M in dead money if he was released or traded this off season. If he was a June first cut they could split it between this year and next but that would eliminate any savings to sign FAs. If they don't extend him this season he can void 2015 and the Lions would still have to account for 9M in dead money and get nothing but a comp pick for him at best.


I will go with Pat Kirwan's numbers over yours. We would save $12M.


February 12th, 2014, 7:18 pm
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