View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently September 22nd, 2014, 4:24 am



Reply to topic  [ 599 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40  Next
 Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity. 
Author Message
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9452
Location: Dallas
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
For the record, I want to say thank you Pablo for allowing me to dig deep and provide the information I've learned along the way. We may not agree and I completely understand that, and respect your perspective, but I also appreciate the challenge in having to work to get the information across. Please do not assume there are any condescending tones in the above responses, (especially as it relates to a history lesson) none were meant in what I said. I will try to stop back by this evening and finish up my perspective on this. Thanks again....


Absolutely and the feeling is mutual my friend. I realize tone can be read into forums, but I think we know each other well enough to know when one is just pushing the other a little to dig deeper (my tone can border on, if not be fully be seen, as arrogant sometimes). Anytime you force me to think, or better yet reconsider my stance, I'm very grateful. In reality, I hope all my prodding simply forces you to think and actually brings you closer to your own personal truth (which of course if your relationship with Jesus). I realize this is a central theme to your existence, something you absolutely need, and more importantly something that has changed you into the man/father/husband you are today. While our paths are very different, I actually think they end up landing in a very similar place in the end - personal growth...

Have a blessed evening brother!

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


December 12th, 2013, 6:18 pm
Profile WWW
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
You had asked a question about what I do with the inconsistencies or inaccuracies of the Bible. As I said, the people spoken of in the Bible, actually exist, they are not just characters in a story, they actually existed, so you are reading their biographies. Having said that, there are times when I read something that gives me pause, and it is in those times that I stop and ask for understanding. The answer may not come right away, it may not come at all, but in some areas I have to take it on faith, and keep on keepin on.

In comparison, there is SO much about evolution, and science that we don't know, how much of that is taken on faith? There are theories and suppositions that seem to point in a certain direction, and we can assume a certain theory based upon the evidence at hand, and/or until the evidence proves otherwise. So it isn't all that different between the two. However there is a key difference! The difference is in the experience; I have faith and can operate based upon experience I have in said faith. From what I have seen by your responses, you do NOT have faith, nor are you willing to accept things by faith. But here's the kicker. "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God." The Bible has been written to show us who God is, what His desire is for mankind, and why things are as they are, and how we can be reunited in relationship with Him. To boil it all down, God doesn't want ANYONE to perish, but there is only ONE way to said relationship, and that's through the sacrifice of Jesus.

There isn't any other major religion who's leader sacrificed himself for those he loves. Muhammed didn't, Buddha didn't, Shinto, Krishna, and so on. They told you the way to paradise, inner peace, yadda yadda. "Greater love hath no man, that he should give up his life for another." We see this in the military, when something tragic happens and one man takes a bullet or grenade to save his buddies. That's the point I made earlier about asking you if you were willing to sacrifice yourself on behalf of others. Jesus did, because the void that separated mankind and God could NOT be crossed by man's effort, so Jesus bridged that gap by his sacrifice. This is why it is so special, and so important.

Sidenote: thanks for your kind words, and I continue to pray for you and many more here, because I care so much about what happens to you. I can't explain why, I mean we've never met, and only shared time on a chat room, but the Lord has impressed some of you deeply on my heart. So because of that, I am in prayer for you guys. So have a blessed night as well brother!

Wags, did that explanation clear things up for you?

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


December 12th, 2013, 9:11 pm
Profile
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 12042
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Blood Bought Born Again Christian is a term I coined based upon my experience and learning. I used to claim the Born Again Christian moniker but in recent months as I was in prayer the Lord began to expand my understanding. As a blood bought born again Christian, I have no rights of my own. Think in terms of a slave. A slave stands in the market and then is purchased, he now belongs to the one who bought him. Well, if you look at Romans 12:1-2, " Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will."

Here's another descriptor: Romans 6: 15, "What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

19 I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness. 20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[b] Christ Jesus our Lord."


So basically, it is a perspective that I'VE chosen to see my walk with Jesus as, and having made that decision, I will let you know that it does run contrary to church culture, as well as American Culture. Church culture is such as we know it, and many are busy drawing their lines in the sand and putting up their fences, and arguments. But as I learn to follow Jesus, and walk as He walked, doing as He did, I learn to cross through barriers, love as He loved, and not respond with anger and fighting, but choosing to see the person as He see's them, and choosing to love them. It is difficult, because it is a lifestyle that catches it from both sides, but it is better in my opinion, because it allows me to reach more people through love, as compared to beating people with a Bible. I hope this makes sense!
Thanks! That helps a bit.

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


December 13th, 2013, 9:23 am
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9452
Location: Dallas
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
In comparison, there is SO much about evolution, and science that we don't know, how much of that is taken on faith?


Easy answer - none. We create theories and develop ways to test them, has nothing to do with faith.

Now let me ask a question to you, one I've asked before but never received an answer for. I will follow this up with a "Faith" challenge for both of us.

How come God, the most creative being ever (think of all you credit him creating out of nothing - pretty impressive), when he sends his son to us has to plagiarize the story (steal all the concepts from prior God's stories that must be false and created by man if you do indeed have it right)?

As I've pointed out a number of times, there are many God's with virtually the exact same "story" as Jesus. A God-child, born of a virgin, performs miracles/heals the sick, etc. Since you brought up a couple of names let's compare Jesus to just one of them who predated him - Krishna (I'll assume you know some of the basics). Here is a paragraph comparing the two...

Quote:
According to Bhagavata Purana some believe that Krishna was born without a sexual union, by “mental transmission” from the mind of Vasudeva into the womb of Devaki, his mother. Christ and Krishna were called both God and the Son of God. Both were sent from heaven to earth in the form of a man. Both were called Savior, and the second person of the Trinity. Krishna’s adoptive human father was also a carpenter. A spirit or ghost was their actual father. Krishna and Jesus were of royal descent. Both were visited at birth by wise men and shepherds, guided by a star. Angels in both cases issued a warning that the local dictator planned to kill the baby and had issued a decree for his assassination. The parents fled. Mary and Joseph stayed in Muturea; Krishna’s parents stayed in Mathura. Both Christ and Krishna withdrew to the wilderness as adults, and fasted. Both were identified as “the seed of the woman bruising the serpent’s head.” Jesus was called “the lion of the tribe of Judah.” Krishna was called “the lion of the tribe of Saki.” Both claimed: “I am the Resurrection.” Both were “without sin.” Both were god-men: being considered both human and divine. Both performed many miracles, including the healing of disease. One of the first miracles that both performed was to make a leper whole. Each cured “all manner of diseases.” Both cast out indwelling demons, and raised the dead. Both selected disciples to spread his teachings. Both were meek, and merciful. Both were criticized for associating with sinners. Both celebrated a last supper. Both forgave his enemies. Both were crucified and both were resurrected.


Now I can come up with many, many more examples of virtually the same story that predates Christ (I did not write the above paragraph). The story of Christ is simply a "mash up" of these previous Gods. So again, how does the most "creative" being that ever existed suddenly have no creativity when it comes to the greatest gift he can bestow upon us?

Now here is the "Faith" challenge...

If you can directly answer this question with sound reasoning that supports your belief system, I'm happy to reconsider my whole stance on Jesus and Christianity. I'll take time to read/listen to/watch anything you feel might change my mind with as open of mind as possible.

If you cannot, would you be willing to reconsider the "truth" and explore Christianity with an open mind? What I mean here, is you will look at Christianity from more of a historical perspective to truly understand it. Look at what came before it and how it shaped Christianity into the Faith that it is today instead of in a vacuum by itself.

We will need a fairly impartial judge (neither you nor I), to decide if you can answer this one simple question - any takers?

So you up for the Faith Challenge amigo?

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


December 13th, 2013, 12:33 pm
Profile WWW
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
If I might respond in such a way, this will challenge your thinking a little, or maybe a lot.

Satan, is called the "father of lies" "the great deceiver" and there is no truth in him.

Okay, Satan is not a physical being. He is spiritual, being created by God till sin (pride) was found in him. When he attempted to usurp the throne of God and win the praise and adoration for himself, he was cast out. This story REALLY stretches the imagination, even for me, but it's recorded in Scripture.

So if I wanted to discredit Jesus, and the story of His being, and deity, wouldn't I want to create stories from all kinds of different avenues that would do that very thing?

Sanscrit is supposedly the most ancient known WRITTEN language, but in a time when language was more often spoken and shared, than read, how easy is it to take said story told in one ear and passed down through generations of ears and remain pure and true to form?

1. Can anyone say telephone game?
2. Man, because of the fall, is now sinful by nature so now that the Sin nature has been given birth, you can not count on 100% purity of the flesh. Having said that, this could tie into even the Bible, but it does NOT because of who wrote it, how it's come together, and existed in its pure form, having been transcribed over 25,000 with fault from last I heard, via Dr. David Jeremiah.
3. So the CHANCE exists that one story told from one ear to the next and traveling from different regions can quite possibly take on the characteristics of said region in order to teach a point, no?

a.) Think of the Saint (Patrick I believe) that went into the Germanic tribes and Isles of Ireland and taught about Jesus and the Trinity to Viking tribesmen. They sacrificed to Thor or Odin, and he went and cut down the sacrificial tree. When those who thought he would be stricken down saw that he was not, they began to question. He then used the Christmas tree (according to legend) to teach the Trinity because of it's triangular shape.

b.) Many of said church traditions that we've discussed and debated were taken over by the church from pagan belief systems in order to reach the people of the environment. Over time they became tradition, even though there isn't any real truth behind their origin. In other words we do what we do, because we've always done it that way. This is my difference between being a Blood Bought Born Again Believer. It's a COMMITTMENT issue, I'm willing to surrender my life as a living sacrifice, or dying if necessary in order that some might be saved. Jesus led the way, and as He teaches me, and leads me to become more like Him, you'll see less of me, and more of Him in me. This runs against tradition, and is more missional in thinking.

I hope that answers your question, and if not I'll try to do better. I didn't read the second have of the message as I only have so much time, I'll try to get back to it.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


December 13th, 2013, 1:52 pm
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
I think there may be a difficulty in your faith challenge...

Because what you are speaking of, is TRADITIONAL Christianity, which has come from the 3rd Century A.D. I'm not trying to skirt around your challenge, but I am suggesting to you that we are not really discussing the same thing. My faith is NOT IN Christianity, my faith IS IN Jesus Christ.

Jesus said, "Come, follow me, and I'll make you fishers of men." He didn't say "come, warm a pew, pay some money, do these things in my name and claim they are from me." As Jesus did ONLY what the Father showed him, and we have the Gospels to illustrate His actions, I can only do what Jesus leads me to do as I follow Him. I can promise you now that I will not do it perfectly, but I will give it all my effort because of my love for Him, based upon what He's done for me. Because of this I can honestly say, Galatians 2:20, "20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." As I walk day by day, minute by minute, I have to learn to sacrifice my selfish wants in order to be available to do what He wants. He doesn't ALWAYS want me to do anything, but there are times that He calls me to do something. When my mind is transformed (see Romans 12:2) then I begin to understand how I'm supposed to see what the Lord is doing, and when I see it, I know how to get involved. Again, it's a committment thing; not to a church but to a lifestyle of surrender and service on behalf of others.

Is this different than the picture you had in mind?

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


December 13th, 2013, 2:00 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9452
Location: Dallas
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
I thought the "story of Jesus Christ" was pretty straightforward and this would be a simple exercise, my mistake.

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


December 13th, 2013, 2:27 pm
Profile WWW
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
it just goes to show you that there is SO much more to it, than just a story. A story can be refuted and brought into question, and I understand your thoughts on this. But I refer back to what I've said, I DON'T want to introduce you to a religion, I WANT to introduce you to a man who's changed my life.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


December 13th, 2013, 2:50 pm
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Here's the first thing from a well known devotional, but it explains a perspective on LOVE.

Friday, February 14, 2014

Relentless Love


Then the LORD said to me, "Go again, love a woman who is loved by a lover and is committing adultery, just like the love of the LORD for the children of Israel, who look to other gods and love the raisin cakes of the pagans." (Hosea 3:1)

No human can comprehend God’s love for His children! Our limited experience of human love hinders us from understanding God’s unconditional love for us. We can see a picture of this love in the life of Hosea.

Hosea was a righteous man, but God told him to marry a sinful woman. Hosea obeyed and took Gomer as his wife. He cherished her and treated her with dignity and respect. Never before had Gomer experienced this kind of love, but she soon grew dissatisfied. She began giving her affections to other men. She became so involved in adulterous pursuits that finally she abandoned Hosea altogether. Other men used her until she had nothing left to give. Then they sold her into slavery. After this, God gave Hosea an amazing command: “Go and buy her back.” Despite the intense pain and hurt that Gomer had inflicted on him, God told Hosea to forgive her and to pay any price to bring her back into his home.

God’s message is clear: When we reject Him and turn our devotion elsewhere, our rejection carries the same pain as an adulterous betrayal. After all God has done for us, it is incomprehensible that we should reject Him. It is even harder to fathom that God could love us even after we have rejected, ignored, and disobeyed Him. Yet God’s love is completely different from ours. His love follows us to the depths of our sinfulness until He has reclaimed us. His love is undaunted when we run from Him, and He continues to pursue us. What incredible love He has demonstrated to us!

The other thing I wanted to share was a POSSIBLE perspective on why Christians view marriage, and have vowed to protect it so fiercely, and I'm not even sure if they know it.

Marriage is an example of God and his church. The marriage process, especially amongst the Jews, was to identify your bride, and then become engaged to her. The engagement time was for the groom to go and prepare the place for them to live after the marriage, and then when he was finished he was to return for her, and be united with his wife in marriage. The same is true for Christianity. Jesus came and redeemed mankind from it's sin. Like the above story, humanity was like Gomer, in that we've chosen other lovers, and continue to this day. So that was why God needed to enter the world as He did, and become one of us in order to redeem us. He then left with the promise to return for us, and that's the 2nd coming that Christians are waiting for.

It is my opinion that Christians are fiercely defending this institution because it is a physical example of Christianity itself. By allowing people to marry same sex, animals, things, it trashes the example and tramples on the holiness of the meaning behind it. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that Christians should be forcing their holiness on other people, AND in truth should be leading by example. Sadly, Christian marriages are suffering from the same divorce rates and worldly marriages, and Christian Youth are participating in the same activities as their worldly counterparts. I, myself, participated in them and worse, until I gave my heart to the Lord. But then again, I didn't understand a thing about holiness, and leading by example. THIS is why the church has become irrelevant in today's society! Not because God has changed, but because we Christians do not live up to the standard He set before us, and have watered it down! This has weakened the strength of the church, and when people see it, they don't want any part of it. With that in mind, I have personally chosen to walk and talk, and do as Jesus did. I choose to love people no matter who they are, or who they love. I will NOT grab a sign and picket marriage, or anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti- anything. I will not call in and encourage my Senator to vote this way or that, but what I will do is get involved in the lives of those around me and attempt to introduce them to the Man whose changed my life.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


February 14th, 2014, 7:46 am
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: August 21st, 2005, 3:36 am
Posts: 3129
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Here's the first thing from a well known devotional, but it explains a perspective on LOVE.

Friday, February 14, 2014

Relentless Love


Then the LORD said to me, "Go again, love a woman who is loved by a lover and is committing adultery, just like the love of the LORD for the children of Israel, who look to other gods and love the raisin cakes of the pagans." (Hosea 3:1)

No human can comprehend God’s love for His children! Our limited experience of human love hinders us from understanding God’s unconditional love for us. We can see a picture of this love in the life of Hosea.

Hosea was a righteous man, but God told him to marry a sinful woman. Hosea obeyed and took Gomer as his wife. He cherished her and treated her with dignity and respect. Never before had Gomer experienced this kind of love, but she soon grew dissatisfied. She began giving her affections to other men. She became so involved in adulterous pursuits that finally she abandoned Hosea altogether. Other men used her until she had nothing left to give. Then they sold her into slavery. After this, God gave Hosea an amazing command: “Go and buy her back.” Despite the intense pain and hurt that Gomer had inflicted on him, God told Hosea to forgive her and to pay any price to bring her back into his home.

God’s message is clear: When we reject Him and turn our devotion elsewhere, our rejection carries the same pain as an adulterous betrayal. After all God has done for us, it is incomprehensible that we should reject Him. It is even harder to fathom that God could love us even after we have rejected, ignored, and disobeyed Him. Yet God’s love is completely different from ours. His love follows us to the depths of our sinfulness until He has reclaimed us. His love is undaunted when we run from Him, and He continues to pursue us. What incredible love He has demonstrated to us!

The other thing I wanted to share was a POSSIBLE perspective on why Christians view marriage, and have vowed to protect it so fiercely, and I'm not even sure if they know it.

Marriage is an example of God and his church. The marriage process, especially amongst the Jews, was to identify your bride, and then become engaged to her. The engagement time was for the groom to go and prepare the place for them to live after the marriage, and then when he was finished he was to return for her, and be united with his wife in marriage. The same is true for Christianity. Jesus came and redeemed mankind from it's sin. Like the above story, humanity was like Gomer, in that we've chosen other lovers, and continue to this day. So that was why God needed to enter the world as He did, and become one of us in order to redeem us. He then left with the promise to return for us, and that's the 2nd coming that Christians are waiting for.

It is my opinion that Christians are fiercely defending this institution because it is a physical example of Christianity itself. By allowing people to marry same sex, animals, things, it trashes the example and tramples on the holiness of the meaning behind it. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that Christians should be forcing their holiness on other people, AND in truth should be leading by example. Sadly, Christian marriages are suffering from the same divorce rates and worldly marriages, and Christian Youth are participating in the same activities as their worldly counterparts. I, myself, participated in them and worse, until I gave my heart to the Lord. But then again, I didn't understand a thing about holiness, and leading by example. THIS is why the church has become irrelevant in today's society! Not because God has changed, but because we Christians do not live up to the standard He set before us, and have watered it down! This has weakened the strength of the church, and when people see it, they don't want any part of it. With that in mind, I have personally chosen to walk and talk, and do as Jesus did. I choose to love people no matter who they are, or who they love. I will NOT grab a sign and picket marriage, or anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti- anything. I will not call in and encourage my Senator to vote this way or that, but what I will do is get involved in the lives of those around me and attempt to introduce them to the Man whose changed my life.

I read this (and other items you post) but to be honest, to me it means nothing. It's just words. Phrases such as "after all God has done for us..." don't mean anything to me because I view the world that way. I don't look around and see God anywhere. I'm not an atheist per se, in that I can't say for sure that God doesn't exist. I don't know if he does. I've never personally witnessed anything that would lead me to believe he does exist, nor have I seen anything that explicitly rules it out. The existing (or not) of God has no impact in my life. I don't live according to any principled endowed to a religion or to any creator. I live by what I believe to be the right things to do. Some of those things match up with the Christian beliefs. Some do not. For me, there's just nothing in my life that is of any relevance to God.

Also, the reference to marriage as a Christian institution is simply not true. There is plenty of documentation showing that the concept of marriage existed before Christianity, and marriage exists outside of Christianity (or any religion for that matter). Even if we were to accept the argument that marriage started as a Christian institution, it still wouldn't be relevant today. In today's world, where we live, it is a civil union. All legal rights bestowed upon a marriage come from the government. This is the reality of the world today. Making reference to ancient origins of things would be the equivalent of spray painting a swastika on someone's garage, and then claiming that you were just trying to spread Buddhism. It doesn't matter what the origins of the symbol are; it matter in what context it is currently being used. Likewise, if you see a Buddhist with what appears to be a swastika, they are not displaying allegiance to Nazis. They are expressing their religious beliefs. Again, context and how things are used in the current time are what really matters.

My overall point is that it's like speaking two different languages. It seems to me that everything in your life is essentially directly influenced by your faith, and that colors your perception and explanation of everything. I come from the opposite direction. I am not religious, and I practice no faith per se. I just live. So my perception and explanation of things comes from that perspective. So when you post religious texts, scripture readings/interpretations, etc., it may as well be a different language, because it essentially has no meaning to me. I mean no disrespect and I hope it does not come across as me discounting or disrespecting your beliefs in any way. I'm just trying to explain my perspective.

_________________
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson


February 14th, 2014, 9:59 am
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Aha! Christianity is not an ancient of ancient religion. Christianity only came into being AFTER Jesus Christ, and followers of his in the 1st Century A.D. became known as Christians, because that's what the Romans called them. So that could be the sticking point here. Marriage did exist, and was a God given institution for the purpose of procreation, and knowing the very human desires of touch and love, and yes even sexual appetite. Like all things good, evil has perverted that. Marriage, sex, morality, decency, the list goes on and on.

This goes back to the discussion point of satan tempting and corrupting the thinking of Eve, which caused the downfall of man. Satan knew he could not beat God in a conflict, he'd already tried it and lost according to Scripture, so instead he attacked the one's who bear the image of God. Humanity. Since that time, and with the "knowledge of good and evil"; we've progressively gotten worse in our morality, finally hitting terminal velocity in recent years. The morality of this nation, and our culture has soured greatly in the last 20 years, and it continues to get worse as we find more and more ways to debase ourselves, under free speech, and "our rights."

And you are absolutley correct that we are on opposite sides of the fence. But that's okay, I serve a big God, and all things are possible through Him, it just may take some time. Till then, I'll love you in Christ, pray for you and others, and leave the results to the one who can do something about it, and that's NOT ME.

Have a blessed day, and a Happy Valentine's day!

Thanks for the discussion, it has helped draw out some interesting perspectives...

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


February 14th, 2014, 10:31 am
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Pablo and Wags,

I thought you might appreciate this Christian's perspective. He was a well known recording artist for many years till he died in a car accident. Quite a man actually.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zQOX8NmC0c

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


February 28th, 2014, 2:41 pm
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Pablo,

I've been meaning to ask you some questions that have developed in my mind after having listened to a man from your area, (DFW) Turning Point Christian Church Dr. Jeff Wickwire.

1. Do you consider archeology a science?

In Dr. Wickwire's sermon he stated some facts that I found to be quite interesting, and thought you might as well.

2. When Archeologists go to the Middle East to search for lost civilizations where have they turned first, to get locations and landmarks?

Of all of the historical findings over the last 150 years in the Middle East, not one finding has overturned anything the Bible has mentioned, according to Dr. Wickwire.

Now I realize I'm regurgitating someone else's information, but I thought you would find that an interesting perspective, based upon your claim that the Bible is in error.

By comparison, Dr. Wickwire stated that not a single other text from another religion was as accurate, nor accurately predicted things that came to past, that were prophetic for the time of their writing. The rebirth of the nation of Israel was predicted and came to be again in 1948, the rise of Russia as a nation was predicted, and those were just the ones I was able to record while driving.

The real interesting point that he made concerned the Bible's mention of ancient peoples and historical rivers and land marks that can still be found today. But one religion (some would call a cult) the Mormon Church, makes mention of several rivers and mountains that can not be located, again according to Dr. Wickwire.

As I said, I thought you might find this perspective interesting about the accuracies of the Bible, as compared to what you've stated in the past, and wondered if you'd considered that aspect?

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


February 28th, 2014, 2:51 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9452
Location: Dallas
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
1. Do you consider archeology a science??


Yes

WarEr4Christ wrote:
In Dr. Wickwire's sermon he stated some facts that I found to be quite interesting, and thought you might as well.


OK, I'm interested, let's see where this goes...

WarEr4Christ wrote:
2. When Archeologists go to the Middle East to search for lost civilizations where have they turned first, to get locations and landmarks?

Of all of the historical findings over the last 150 years in the Middle East, not one finding has overturned anything the Bible has mentioned, according to Dr. Wickwire.?


Funny, I just posted a very interesting archeology study on camels last week that showed they weren't domesticated till well after they were reportedly used by in the Bible (obviously proving that man wrote the Bible based on what he knew at the time and simply projected it back in history). Guess he missed that one. I also posted a pre-Noah's arc story about an ark that predated when the Bible's version was written - while it doesn't prove that an arc didn't exist but once again is another story most likely copied later by the Jews and rewritten as their own - just like many of the stores of the Good Book. These are just two examples of the past two weeks, let alone the last 150 years. That said, could he be biased as a pastor? Stretching the truth for ratings on his radio show? And why limit to the last 150 years? Guess we want to quickly dismiss findings by Copernicus that didn't even need modern science to disprove statements made in the Bible or many other truths the Church tried to bury since they conflicted with the Bible.

WarEr4Christ wrote:
Now I realize I'm regurgitating someone else's information, but I thought you would find that an interesting perspective, based upon your claim that the Bible is in error.


Actually I'm not personally claiming that the Bible has errors, there are hundreds of examples of errors on the Bible - none discovered by me. It isn't a "claim" as you assert, it is fact.

WarEr4Christ wrote:
By comparison, Dr. Wickwire stated that not a single other text from another religion was as accurate, nor accurately predicted things that came to past, that were prophetic for the time of their writing. The rebirth of the nation of Israel was predicted and came to be again in 1948, the rise of Russia as a nation was predicted, and those were just the ones I was able to record while driving.


Again with any source, consider if there is a bias. What I do find fascinating is that when you "believe" the Bible accurately predicts something you include specific facts and dates. Yet for all the many predictions that haven't come true, say the 2nd coming, it is impossible to nail down these types of facts - even though the Bible clearly indicates the timeframe as soon, or within the lifetime of "his generation".

Also, what you state here must be false since I have pointed out story after story in the Bible that was plagiarized from an earlier belief system (see Noah above as one simple example). How in the world could all the stories from the Bible be true, yet the stories they were copied from were not? Simply mutually exclusive/impossible and your Dr. loses all credibility real fast.

WarEr4Christ wrote:
The real interesting point that he made concerned the Bible's mention of ancient peoples and historical rivers and land marks that can still be found today. But one religion (some would call a cult) the Mormon Church, makes mention of several rivers and mountains that can not be located, again according to Dr. Wickwire.


Imagine a book written by man that includes real rivers and land marks? Have you ever read a book of fiction that still included real places, land marks or even people? I'm sure you have since there are hundreds of thousands of them - including the Bible and Harry Potter. Not sure why you find this interesting, it just makes the stories seem more real to the reader.

WarEr4Christ wrote:
As I said, I thought you might find this perspective interesting about the accuracies of the Bible, as compared to what you've stated in the past, and wondered if you'd considered that aspect?


What I do find interesting is that as a believer you will quickly latch onto statements like these to "prove" your belief system is true, but if they can easily be "proven" false you won't consider that your belief system might not be true after all?

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


February 28th, 2014, 5:31 pm
Profile WWW
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 am
Posts: 2772
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Pablo, the camel story was interesting. Especially when you look deeper into it and you find out the archaeologists refused to use information outside of their own study. There's evidence there were domesticated camels in Ugarit, which was part of Babylon at the time from 1950 to 1600BC, and they believe they were domesticated in Egypt as early as 3000 BC.

Also, when you look into it, it's a common debate of the archaeologists in the middle east. The ones working out of Israel and Jordan believe in the later date, while those in Egypt and Mesopotamia believe in the earlier dates. It think it has more to do with their studies in trying to change the dates of when David and Solomon ruled, hence the camels used for copper mining. Look up United Monarchy of Israel debates and you'll find a bunch of reading if you want to dig into it. But those guys specifically that released this paper, which only shows they found camel bones used in copper mining, which did happen at that exact time they dated, doesn't match up with other data that they were around before. They were just trying to show dates, even though the mines themselves were dated back earlier and match the rules of those two kings.

I love studies like that though. Even the Noah one. I just hate when the journalists extrapolate conclusions that the studies never prove. And looking into the sources and information leads to some good reads, so I'm glad you keep posting them :)


February 28th, 2014, 8:54 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 599 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.