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 Legalize Heroin and other opiates? 
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Post Re: Legalize Heroin and other opiates?
don't get angry, we just diff on opinions. I see nothing wrong with your argument I just tend to disagree with the end result. In the end I'm fairly sure weed will be legalize and probably will have nearly zero effect on my everyday life, with the exception of having to smell that orange Juilius/burnt toilet paper smell more often.


February 19th, 2014, 3:47 pm
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Post Re: Legalize Heroin and other opiates?
aManNamedSuh wrote:
don't get angry, we just diff on opinions. I see nothing wrong with your argument I just tend to disagree with the end result. In the end I'm fairly sure weed will be legalize and probably will have nearly zero effect on my everyday life, with the exception of having to smell that orange Juilius/burnt toilet paper smell more often.

Not mad at all. Sorry if it came across that way. I was intending mostly sarcasm, not anger. Oops.

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February 20th, 2014, 8:09 am
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Post Re: Legalize Heroin and other opiates?
Pablo wrote:
Could this be a bit of a knee jerk reaction to PSH's death? What would Nancy Regan say?

I'm pretty libertarian in general and some of the studies have pretty interesting results, but lets tap the breaks on making everything legal all of a sudden.

We have 1.5 months of legal mary jane, and while both states that approved it made it to the Super Bowl, lets use this as a real world case study for what happens in real life once a drug is made legal. Even then, I wouldn't compare that to heroin.

I know very little about heroin, so this is an area I know little about. I'd agree, we need to start shifting the focus on the war on drugs. But we need to phase in steps and review the various outcomes before we just make everything legal. With a drug this "hard", you have to be careful of the unintended consequences of legalization.
For me, no, its not a knee jerk reaction; I've been in favor of legalizing all drugs for some time now. That said, I do agree there would need to be a phased in approach, starting with factual, scientific/medical-based education. Congress could then take the necessary steps to reschedule the drugs, perhaps on a graduated basis.

Bottom line for me is, why should these substances remain illegal? Put simply, its a personal freedom, personal responsibility issue for me.

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February 20th, 2014, 8:41 am
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Post Re: Legalize Heroin and other opiates?
aManNamedSuh wrote:
I would simply say that making it illegal put a stigma on them that could potentially prevent someone from trying the drug in the first place.
Or, perhaps we could educate the public on what these substances do to them. No scare tactics, just facts. Then let the individual decide if its something they'd like to do/try for themselves.

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February 20th, 2014, 8:44 am
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Post Re: Legalize Heroin and other opiates?
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
There's just no evidence to support the idea that week is harmful. Or at least, there is evidence showing it to be far less harmful than alcohol or tobacco. For example, there are areas where the effects of alcohol and weed are similar (impaired coordination, balance, judgement).
While I agree with this, we also have to remember there's already lots of things that are harmful that are legal (driving, smoking, drinking alcohol, prescription drugs, etc). IMO just because something may be deemed 'harmful' is not reason enough for it to be banned/illegal.

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February 20th, 2014, 8:50 am
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Post Re: Legalize Heroin and other opiates?
TheRealWags wrote:

Bottom line for me is, why should these substances remain illegal? Put simply, its a personal freedom, personal responsibility issue for me.


But where is the responsibility with a potential Taxpayer funded drug habit. I am find if "War on Drug" money gets moved to education and voluntary (if the drug is legalized) treatment facilities, but am not ok with it just straight up being used to give drugs to a freeloader with no intent to end the usage.


February 20th, 2014, 1:28 pm
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Post Re: Legalize Heroin and other opiates?
I generally like to operate under the idea of:

"If it's between consenting adults, and no one else gets hurt, it should be legal."

However, with some of the harder drugs, that's not necessarily the case -- there are externalities and it's a blurry line. Addicts that turn to crime to support their habit, neglect their children, etc.


February 20th, 2014, 2:02 pm
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Post Re: Legalize Heroin and other opiates?
DJ-B wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
Bottom line for me is, why should these substances remain illegal? Put simply, its a personal freedom, personal responsibility issue for me.
But where is the responsibility with a potential Taxpayer funded drug habit. I am find if "War on Drug" money gets moved to education and voluntary (if the drug is legalized) treatment facilities, but am not ok with it just straight up being used to give drugs to a freeloader with no intent to end the usage.
Agreed.
Blueskies wrote:
I generally like to operate under the idea of:

"If it's between consenting adults, and no one else gets hurt, it should be legal."

However, with some of the harder drugs, that's not necessarily the case -- there are externalities and it's a blurry line. Addicts that turn to crime to support their habit, neglect their children, etc.
Agreed, addicts need help; that help should be available without fear of getting arrested. Addiction is a medical issue, not a legal one, and should be treated accordingly. Would someone go to the police if they get sick?

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February 20th, 2014, 4:09 pm
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Post Re: Legalize Heroin and other opiates?
would anyone participating in a criminal activity voluntarily go to the police? If something is illegal, there is a legal component to the issue, lets not fool ourselves. There is certainly a medical component to this as well, I'm not denying that.

I'm guessing that most in favor of legalizing the "harder" drugs do not have children. As a of-age man, I'm perfectly fine having everything legal if we are to a large extent held responsible for our own actions. At my age, I can handle making decisions like this.

As a father of two boys, I do not want my kids having access to legal heroine, crack cocaine, bath salts, etc. One might argue that they can get it on their own, it won't be as pure, etc. - I don't really care. I (somewhat) remember being a teenage boy and in my early 20's, I'm glad I didn't have easy access to hard drugs because I probably would have been tempted to give them a try - hell, I was invincible - or so I thought.

I'm willing to look at studies and if they suggest kids are no more likely to try and abuse these drugs I'm open to changing my mind.

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February 20th, 2014, 4:53 pm
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Post Re: Legalize Heroin and other opiates?
Pablo wrote:
would anyone participating in a criminal activity voluntarily go to the police? If something is illegal, there is a legal component to the issue, lets not fool ourselves. There is certainly a medical component to this as well, I'm not denying that.

I'm guessing that most in favor of legalizing the "harder" drugs do not have children. As a of-age man, I'm perfectly fine having everything legal if we are to a large extent held responsible for our own actions. At my age, I can handle making decisions like this.

As a father of two boys, I do not want my kids having access to legal heroine, crack cocaine, bath salts, etc. One might argue that they can get it on their own, it won't be as pure, etc. - I don't really care. I (somewhat) remember being a teenage boy and in my early 20's, I'm glad I didn't have easy access to hard drugs because I probably would have been tempted to give them a try - hell, I was invincible - or so I thought.

I'm willing to look at studies and if they suggest kids are no more likely to try and abuse these drugs I'm open to changing my mind.
Understandable. Though I do wonder if you have the same feeling when it comes to your boys drinking a beer, jello shots, jungle juice, cigarettes, marijuana, prescription meds, etc. The point being is that there are people that feel the same about those substances as you do about the 'hard' drugs; the main difference being people are more educated on those than they are opiates.

Perhaps in an effort to be clearer: There needs to be studies done on the effects of legalizing as well as a scientific and medical-based education campaign on these substances. Then we can discuss, in earnest, how to reclassify them.

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February 21st, 2014, 10:27 am
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Post Re: Legalize Heroin and other opiates?
TheRealWags wrote:
Understandable. Though I do wonder if you have the same feeling when it comes to your boys drinking a beer, jello shots, jungle juice, cigarettes, marijuana, prescription meds, etc. The point being is that there are people that feel the same about those substances as you do about the 'hard' drugs; the main difference being people are more educated on those than they are opiates.


I don't have the same feelings about the items you mention above as I do about "harder" drugs. Not that I am in favor of my boys doing those either, it just isn't on the same level when it comes to fear from their dad. Part of this has to do with their dad having "experimented" and understanding beer, jello shots, cigarettes, and marijuana. Perscription meds scare me as well because I have little understanding of them either, but my wife has worked in a hospital so we have that somewhat covered.

A parent needs to educate their children and that means the parent also needs to be educated. You will find a "fear" factor as a parent in areas in which you yourself feel uneducated.

TheRealWags wrote:
Perhaps in an effort to be clearer: There needs to be studies done on the effects of legalizing as well as a scientific and medical-based education campaign on these substances. Then we can discuss, in earnest, how to reclassify them.


Agreed!

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February 21st, 2014, 10:39 am
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Post Re: Legalize Heroin and other opiates?
At the end of the day, it's a simple cost-benefit economic analysis. We just need more data.

My hope is that the Feds stay out of this entirely and we allow the states to keep tinkering. Perhaps of the more progressive ones would be willing to legalize cocaine next, and see where that takes us.


February 21st, 2014, 4:05 pm
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