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 We need to trade Suh. 
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
vankman79 wrote:
i disagree with the idea that suh, calvin and matt will get us to the superbowl (which i hope im wrong). but i really cant argue with the rest of what you said.

all i know is that nate is gone, delmas is gone, pettigrew likely gone, we dont have a cornerback worthy of starting on the team, and besides calvin we dont have a wr worthy of being on the team besides ross which is only because of his kick returning ability and that is what makes him worth keeping. you eliminate one of them big contracts on the team and then there is money to shore up those needs. in my opinion you can shore them areas up if you let suh go whether it be trading him or letting him walk away. i prefer to trade him and get something out of him.


The 2008 ARI team and the 2011 NYG team proved you only have to get hot in the playoffs to make it to the Super Bowl.


February 16th, 2014, 7:31 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
vankman79 wrote:
brandon marshall, marshall faulk, richard seymour, marshawn lynch, trent richardson, terrell owens, john hadl, brett favre, bobby layne, michael haynes, eric dickerson, les richter, randy moss, jerome bettis, herschel walker, steve young, john elway, bill belichick and many more.

good teams dont end up drafting top 5 every year and having 3 players at over 15 mil per season. its crippling

I should have been more specific. Top tier, all pro type players who aren't huge problems for their teams are almost never traded, and in the rare case when they are, it almost always works out better for the teams who receive them. The team who trades them almost always ends up worse off. Let's go one by one:

Marshall: Great player, and was traded twice due to behavioral stuff. The teams who traded him definitely got the worse end of the deals.
Faulk: A truly great player when he was traded. Indy got absolutely hosed in this deal.
Seymour: One of the rare deals where both teams ended up doing well.
Lynch: Wasn't even the starting RB on his team when he was traded. He didn't break out until he got to Seattle, who got the far better end of that deal.
Richardson: What? He's not top tier. He hasn't done anything. Wasn't any good in Cleveland, and is arguably worse in Indy. Shouldn't be on this list.
Owens: A great, all pro player who was a problem everywhere he went. Teams that received him were better for a year or two, then couldn't wait to get rid of him. A weird case.
Hadl: Um, who? I looked him up. Seems to be a stud player who had 1 good year after he was traded, then went downhill. Definitely not traded in his prime.
Favre: Was nothing when Atlanta sent him to the Packers. He threw a total of 4 passes in his career prior to the trade. Then when the Packers let him go he was WAY past his prime.
Bobby Layne: Really? You're going to use Bobby Layne as an example to justify the Lions trading away a star player. Yeah that worked out really well last time.
Haynes: Great player. Wasn't traded or let go. It was a settlement that was effectively a trade, and it worked out much better for the raiders (the team who he went to)
Dickerson: a truly elite player who changed teams in his prime. The Colts got a hall of fame player, and the Rams got Gaston Green, Aaron Cox, Fred Strickland, Cleveland Gary, Frank Stams, and Darryl Henley. Way better deal for the Colts.
Richter: He was drafted before playing. Essentially a draft day trade. Not the same as what we're talking about here.
Moss: Was not at his peak when he was traded. Was coming off two down years and was injured. Didn't play well in Oakland and didn't pick back up until he went to New England. New England definitely got the better of that deal.
Bettis: Top tier player and both teams benefited. A rarity.
Walker: Pretty much the worst trade in NFL history. He was way past his prime and the Vikings got hosed.
Steve Young: Young had done nothing when he was traded, then rode the bench behind Montana for 3 years before he got his chance. He was never traded again at his peak.
Elway: Huh? Only ever played for the Broncos. He was a draft trade, and the Broncos got the WAY better end of the deal.
Belichik: he was a failed head coach who was supposed to take over for the jets when he went to the Pats. He definitely wasn't a top tier guy at that point.

So let's see, there's 4 or 5 examples of top tier guys who were traded or let go, and in all but one case the team who picked up the player got the better end of the deal. So tell me again why the Lions should want to get rid of their best defensive (and maybe best overall) player?

As for your comment about the money, that's in the past now, and what the Lions can do is restructure the deals to be more cap friendly. It's what they've been doing every offseason, and it's working. They'll have to continue to do it for now if they want to keep their talent.


thats great you break all them down, but your question was you couldnt even think of 1 example besides the herschel walker trade. i just wanted to shed some light on that and show you that it does happen. Plus i would say that suh is a problem because of his salary. plus he is not exactly a model citizen himself with all his on and off the field issues.


February 16th, 2014, 9:31 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
vankman79 wrote:
thats great you break all them down, but your question was you couldnt even think of 1 example besides the herschel walker trade. i just wanted to shed some light on that and show you that it does happen. Plus i would say that suh is a problem because of his salary. plus he is not exactly a model citizen himself with all his on and off the field issues.

Yeah, I was thinking more about the fact that the teams who do those things aren't very good, and I didn't word my thoughts very well. To me, the bottom line is whether or not it makes a team better. And the overwhelming evidence shows that teams who trade away top tier talent end up worse off in the deal. Pretty much the only examples where it works out for the team trading away the player is when the player is past his prime and some other team overpays for him. That's what happened with Walker. And that's definitely not the case with Suh. He's definitely in his prime and is one of the best in the league at his position. Getting rid of him will most likely make the team worse. Could it possibly work out that the team is better without him? Sure. That's always a possibility. But I think it's a very, very small possibility.

Also, as I noted his salary will continue to be reworked every few years to make it a more cap friendly deal. That's what the Lions have been doing with CJ, Staff, and Suh over the pat few years, and they'll continue to do it. And as for him being a problem, I'd say that's much more a product of the media than anything real. Sure, he makes boneheaded plays from time to time. But on balance, over the past couple seasons, he's had very few bad plays. The media just jumps all over anything and reports it like he shot a guy. His own teammates elected him captain, and everyone who is willing to put his name behind his comments unequivocally says Suh is a great teammate.

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February 17th, 2014, 4:03 am
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
i was more talking about the speeding tickets and the car accidents


February 17th, 2014, 11:40 am
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
vankman79 wrote:
i was more talking about the speeding tickets and the car accidents

I'll take a guy who plays at an elite level and has minor traffic infractions every day of the week. In pretty much every incident that he's been involved in, it's come out that he didn't do anything seriously wrong. Yes he did some dumb things, but nobody died, he didn't beat anyone up, etc. Every NFL team would take Suh in a heartbeat.

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February 17th, 2014, 11:54 am
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
vankman79 wrote:
your not getting my example, it might be some other players they spend the money on. either way the lions would lose something at defensive tackle but gain in other spots. lets say they get jason hatcher, rilley cooper, and vontae davis. hakeem nicks and brent grimes. tj ward and alterraun verner. dominique rodgers cromartie and jarius byrd. chris clemons, eric decker, captain munnerlyn. there are all kinds of good players that could be picked up with the money saved by not signing him to a long term deal and trading him away.

every one of them scenarios are wins but on top of that you still have the draft picks you got in return for suh which is a first round pick. but your not trading suh for just the 1st and 3rd round picks. your also signing guys with what would have been his salary which are proven talent.

Oh, I get your point.
Let me reiterate:
There is no guarantee that you will sign any of those guy just based on trading Suh. There's also no guarantee that any draft pick will perform and give the Lions what Suh gives the Lions. There's no guarantee that any of those players you've mentioned will come here be able to contribute the way Suh has.
But I'll tell you what IS guaranteed. It's guaranteed that you have a proven player on your roster who is considered by many to be the best at his position unless you trade him away.

Since you love playing the "what-if" game, let me bestow a "what-if" to you:
What if, against all odds, you do draft that difference maker in the first round. He isn't making that much money as a rookie, but he explodes as an NFL player, makes the Pro Bowl in his first year, becomes the face of the franchise. With me so far? Good.
Now what happens in the off-season after earning a menial wage as a rookie? I'll bet dollars to donuts that he demands a higher salary and a new contract. If he's really good, in all likelihood, he demands something similar to what Suh is making. What do you do then?
TRADE HIM!!!! HE MAKES TOO MUCH MONEY, HE HAS TO GO!!!!
Tell me, at what point do you accept that you have a talented player and you have to pay actual money to keep his services?
Of course, the Lions could have a team perpetually filled with cheap role-players and rookies that, once they pan out, are traded because they make too much money. Obviously a fool-proof recipe for success.
Sounds to me like, if you were a Pats fan, you'd also want Tom Brady to be traded. Not much difference there. Both players make lots of money, both players are elite at their position and both players have a proven track record. You don't trade Richard Sherman, you don't trade Brady and the Lions shouldn't trade Suh for draft picks. It's ridiculous and it ignores the most obvious history of these situations failing the team that trades the player. It's fun fodder, but if you really believe the Lions wouldn't be totally assraped in a deal like that, you're ignoring the fact that you're trading an absolute for an uncertainty. You wouldn't do it with your life savings, you wouldn't do it with your career and the Lions would be really stupid to do it to their talent.


February 17th, 2014, 7:07 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
tom brady is only one player earning that high of a salary on that team. the lions have 3 of them. suhs contract is inflated due to what his rookie deal was so now he is gonna want a raise. if you draft the guy in the draft then you dont have to pay him as much as you have to pay suh after the rookie deal just because he is a good player. there will be no discounts from suh, he is gonna cost a bunch of money. im not gonna say he is not a good player, but he isnt even the best defensive tackle in the league so why should the lions pay him like he is just because of his inflated rookie deal?


February 18th, 2014, 2:08 am
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
You took it a little too far there in comparing a DT to a QB, I would be all for trading Suh if I knew they would get a fair trade but it isn't happening. The reason I wouldn't mind trading him is because the DT position just isn't a premium position as far as paying players and the return on investment. Most of the teams that have won Super Bowls in recent history haven't had DTs under premium contracts and in a lot of cases haven't had All Pro level DTs, in fact with out looking it up I think Ngata might be the highest paid and Wilfork has been greatly underpaid his entire career. With Ngata he also wasn't on a team with two other mega contracts like Stafford and Johnson have.

Suh however just isn't tradable for the simple fact the Lions will never get a favorable trade. Instead the Lions should look to sign him to a seven year $115 million contract with say a $42 million signing bonus. The caveat would be a monster base pay in year six of roughly $35 million. In doing so Suh would get another big chunk of change in that $42 million signing bonus while also having his ego stroked by signing the largest contract by a DT. The Lions would benefit by locking him up long term at a manageable per year cost of $16.4 million which would is actually a much lower number when you remove that balloon season in year six. At that point he would be around 34 and they can cut him and take the $12 million cap hit. It's easy to write but if they can get a similar deal done the Lions might actually be viable long term.


February 19th, 2014, 7:24 am
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
Pay wise, the only players you can compare Suh with, are QBs


February 19th, 2014, 8:45 am
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
very few qbs because he makes more than 75% of the qbs in the league


February 19th, 2014, 11:02 am
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
Sometimes I look at threads like these that are going very deep in discussion and think it doesnt matter anyway because the Lions will never trade him anyway.

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February 19th, 2014, 3:38 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
So according to projections we'll need to have about $5.1M allocated for rookies. We currently have between $4 and $5 M in space. So if we don't sign anyone else we're set. We probably have to make around $10M more in space to sign our RFA and ERFA and add a couple new players.


February 19th, 2014, 9:43 pm
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
freep wrote:
Ndamukong Suh, Detroit Lions could work on contract extension this week - if he has an agent

Ndamukong Suh seems like a bright businessman.

He occasionally hangs out with billionaire investor Warren Buffett in the off-season. He has built a personal brand immune to — or perhaps with the help of — some minor on- and off-field troubles. His post-football career appears well thought out.

And maybe this is Business 101. Deadlines spur deals, after all, and for Suh and the Detroit Lions, there’s no more pressing deadline then the start of free agency 4 p.m. March 11.

That’s when the Lions hope to have Suh signed to a new, long-term contract, which would lock up the game’s best defensive tackle and should give them enough salary cap room to accomplish what they need in free agency: sign a starter or two, like last year.

The NFL combine kicks off this week, and every coach, general manager and agent will be in Indianapolis. Along with the obvious weighing, measuring and interviewing of draft prospects, this is where league business gets done.

Teams meet with player reps over lunch or dinner or a 10-minute cup of coffee to express their interest in joining forces this fall and beyond — or at least until younger, cheaper options come around.

Firm contract offers aren’t usually made here. Technically, that would be tampering if the player is currently with another team, and teams don’t want their deals shopped around three weeks before the start of free agency anyway.

The Lions will meet with the reps for most if not all of their free agents this week, and they’d like to sit down with Suh’s contract advisers as well. The only problem is, as of Tuesday, Suh still hadn’t officially signed with an agent — or if he had, no one told the Lions.

Suh has been linked to music mogul Jay Z’s Roc Nation Sports agency since he fired his former agents last month. For marketing purposes, at least, that marriage appears set.

Suh reportedly attended several Jay Z concerts in recent months, and according to Vibe magazine, Jay Z wore Suh’s black Nebraska No. 93 jersey when he played a concert at Suh’s alma mater in December.

But who negotiates Suh’s contract is still a mystery at this point, albeit one that everyone expects to be solved soon.

Suh, who was expected to pick from a short list of prominent agents, and perhaps Roc Nation as well, will have tons of leverage when his contract negotiations begin but never more than in the next three weeks.

His cap number this fall is more than $22.4 million, which would put his 2015 salary on the franchise tag (if the Lions would dare use it) at almost $26.9 million. Trading Suh is not an option, at this point, with no sense of where negotiations are headed — he’d still take up $19.5 million in cap room if he were dealt, and the win-now Lions would be without their best defensive player. And if the Lions don’t get a deal done this off-season, Suh almost certainly will void his contract five days after next year’s Super Bowl and become an unrestricted free agent.

From the Lions’ standpoint, there are contingencies in place if a new deal with Suh can’t get done, though none is ideal.

They could cut players like they did with wide receiver Nate Burleson and safety Louis Delmas last week, a dangerous proposition for a team with depth problems as is. They could shuffle money around with simple contract restructurings for players such as wide receiver Calvin Johnson and safety Glover Quin, though that only serves to kick salary cap problems and tough roster decisions further down the road.

Suh is coming off maybe the best season of his NFL career. At age 27, he’s still in his prime and has never missed a game due to injury. He was voted a team captain for the first time last year.

There are plenty of reasons to keep Suh around for the next few years, and the Lions would like to make it happen. They just have to know when and where — in Indianapolis this week? — to begin.

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February 20th, 2014, 10:02 am
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
Pablo wrote:
freep wrote:
Ndamukong Suh, Detroit Lions could work on contract extension this week - if he has an agent

Ndamukong Suh seems like a bright businessman.

He occasionally hangs out with billionaire investor Warren Buffett in the off-season. He has built a personal brand immune to — or perhaps with the help of — some minor on- and off-field troubles. His post-football career appears well thought out.

And maybe this is Business 101. Deadlines spur deals, after all, and for Suh and the Detroit Lions, there’s no more pressing deadline then the start of free agency 4 p.m. March 11.

That’s when the Lions hope to have Suh signed to a new, long-term contract, which would lock up the game’s best defensive tackle and should give them enough salary cap room to accomplish what they need in free agency: sign a starter or two, like last year.

The NFL combine kicks off this week, and every coach, general manager and agent will be in Indianapolis. Along with the obvious weighing, measuring and interviewing of draft prospects, this is where league business gets done.

Teams meet with player reps over lunch or dinner or a 10-minute cup of coffee to express their interest in joining forces this fall and beyond — or at least until younger, cheaper options come around.

Firm contract offers aren’t usually made here. Technically, that would be tampering if the player is currently with another team, and teams don’t want their deals shopped around three weeks before the start of free agency anyway.

The Lions will meet with the reps for most if not all of their free agents this week, and they’d like to sit down with Suh’s contract advisers as well. The only problem is, as of Tuesday, Suh still hadn’t officially signed with an agent — or if he had, no one told the Lions.

Suh has been linked to music mogul Jay Z’s Roc Nation Sports agency since he fired his former agents last month. For marketing purposes, at least, that marriage appears set.

Suh reportedly attended several Jay Z concerts in recent months, and according to Vibe magazine, Jay Z wore Suh’s black Nebraska No. 93 jersey when he played a concert at Suh’s alma mater in December.

But who negotiates Suh’s contract is still a mystery at this point, albeit one that everyone expects to be solved soon.

Suh, who was expected to pick from a short list of prominent agents, and perhaps Roc Nation as well, will have tons of leverage when his contract negotiations begin but never more than in the next three weeks.

His cap number this fall is more than $22.4 million, which would put his 2015 salary on the franchise tag (if the Lions would dare use it) at almost $26.9 million. Trading Suh is not an option, at this point, with no sense of where negotiations are headed — he’d still take up $19.5 million in cap room if he were dealt, and the win-now Lions would be without their best defensive player. And if the Lions don’t get a deal done this off-season, Suh almost certainly will void his contract five days after next year’s Super Bowl and become an unrestricted free agent.

From the Lions’ standpoint, there are contingencies in place if a new deal with Suh can’t get done, though none is ideal.

They could cut players like they did with wide receiver Nate Burleson and safety Louis Delmas last week, a dangerous proposition for a team with depth problems as is. They could shuffle money around with simple contract restructurings for players such as wide receiver Calvin Johnson and safety Glover Quin, though that only serves to kick salary cap problems and tough roster decisions further down the road.

Suh is coming off maybe the best season of his NFL career. At age 27, he’s still in his prime and has never missed a game due to injury. He was voted a team captain for the first time last year.

There are plenty of reasons to keep Suh around for the next few years, and the Lions would like to make it happen. They just have to know when and where — in Indianapolis this week? — to begin.

The Lions are keeping their best defensive player AND they will have room to grab free agents?
I could have sworn the sky was falling a few days ago.


February 21st, 2014, 3:27 am
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Post Re: We need to trade Suh.
HechePipe wrote:
Pablo wrote:
freep wrote:
Ndamukong Suh, Detroit Lions could work on contract extension this week - if he has an agent

Ndamukong Suh seems like a bright businessman.

He occasionally hangs out with billionaire investor Warren Buffett in the off-season. He has built a personal brand immune to — or perhaps with the help of — some minor on- and off-field troubles. His post-football career appears well thought out.

And maybe this is Business 101. Deadlines spur deals, after all, and for Suh and the Detroit Lions, there’s no more pressing deadline then the start of free agency 4 p.m. March 11.

That’s when the Lions hope to have Suh signed to a new, long-term contract, which would lock up the game’s best defensive tackle and should give them enough salary cap room to accomplish what they need in free agency: sign a starter or two, like last year.

The NFL combine kicks off this week, and every coach, general manager and agent will be in Indianapolis. Along with the obvious weighing, measuring and interviewing of draft prospects, this is where league business gets done.

Teams meet with player reps over lunch or dinner or a 10-minute cup of coffee to express their interest in joining forces this fall and beyond — or at least until younger, cheaper options come around.

Firm contract offers aren’t usually made here. Technically, that would be tampering if the player is currently with another team, and teams don’t want their deals shopped around three weeks before the start of free agency anyway.

The Lions will meet with the reps for most if not all of their free agents this week, and they’d like to sit down with Suh’s contract advisers as well. The only problem is, as of Tuesday, Suh still hadn’t officially signed with an agent — or if he had, no one told the Lions.

Suh has been linked to music mogul Jay Z’s Roc Nation Sports agency since he fired his former agents last month. For marketing purposes, at least, that marriage appears set.

Suh reportedly attended several Jay Z concerts in recent months, and according to Vibe magazine, Jay Z wore Suh’s black Nebraska No. 93 jersey when he played a concert at Suh’s alma mater in December.

But who negotiates Suh’s contract is still a mystery at this point, albeit one that everyone expects to be solved soon.

Suh, who was expected to pick from a short list of prominent agents, and perhaps Roc Nation as well, will have tons of leverage when his contract negotiations begin but never more than in the next three weeks.

His cap number this fall is more than $22.4 million, which would put his 2015 salary on the franchise tag (if the Lions would dare use it) at almost $26.9 million. Trading Suh is not an option, at this point, with no sense of where negotiations are headed — he’d still take up $19.5 million in cap room if he were dealt, and the win-now Lions would be without their best defensive player. And if the Lions don’t get a deal done this off-season, Suh almost certainly will void his contract five days after next year’s Super Bowl and become an unrestricted free agent.

From the Lions’ standpoint, there are contingencies in place if a new deal with Suh can’t get done, though none is ideal.

They could cut players like they did with wide receiver Nate Burleson and safety Louis Delmas last week, a dangerous proposition for a team with depth problems as is. They could shuffle money around with simple contract restructurings for players such as wide receiver Calvin Johnson and safety Glover Quin, though that only serves to kick salary cap problems and tough roster decisions further down the road.

Suh is coming off maybe the best season of his NFL career. At age 27, he’s still in his prime and has never missed a game due to injury. He was voted a team captain for the first time last year.

There are plenty of reasons to keep Suh around for the next few years, and the Lions would like to make it happen. They just have to know when and where — in Indianapolis this week? — to begin.

The Lions are keeping their best defensive player AND they will have room to grab free agents?
I could have sworn the sky was falling a few days ago.


A few days ago, everyone was still under the impression that the cap wasn't going to grow much if any. But, the extra $7Million/year on the cap, has made it a realistic possibility to keep Suh, CJ, and Stafford. And maybe even have a few other pieces to work with.


February 21st, 2014, 9:34 am
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