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 Suh's contract status 
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Post Re: Suh's contract status
BillySims wrote:
Pablo wrote:
Too bad we didn't take this same approach with Stafford, CJ and now Suh. I mean what team needs its QB/stars asking to be paid like QB/stars when you can trade them for draft picks that may or may not pan out?


A QB and a WR. You pay the guys that score the points. A DT? You pay them. But, nowhere near what you pay the TD makers.


In a league where the rules benefit the offense and strangle the defense, you should be paying the stars on defense that help prevent the opposition from scoring. I certainly don't think Suh should be paid a ridiculous amount of money per season. But with his ability to put pressure on the QB and force offenses to double team him, his impact is difficult to measure in mere stats.

If Suh demands a ridiculous sum, then trade him and get something in return. I can agree with that. But if his contract desires are within reason, get it done.

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March 26th, 2014, 1:37 pm
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Post Re: Suh's contract status
I still think Suh will get the contract that trumps what Haynesworth signed for but it will also have a big chunk of money he won't see. It will be a contract that strokes both Suh's and his agents ego and allow the Lions to keep him on the roster during his prime years at a reasonable rate. I can see a seven year deal for $119 million with a $42 million signing bonus. They can keep the per year number down by making year six a huge number like $30 million which would allow them to walk away with a $12 million dollar cap hit for a player that will likely be a diminished version of himself.


March 26th, 2014, 4:59 pm
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Post Re: Suh's contract status
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March 27th, 2014, 12:21 pm
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Post Re: Suh's contract status
sweetd20 wrote:
I still think Suh will get the contract that trumps what Haynesworth signed for but it will also have a big chunk of money he won't see. It will be a contract that strokes both Suh's and his agents ego and allow the Lions to keep him on the roster during his prime years at a reasonable rate. I can see a seven year deal for $119 million with a $42 million signing bonus. They can keep the per year number down by making year six a huge number like $30 million which would allow them to walk away with a $12 million dollar cap hit for a player that will likely be a diminished version of himself.


Just remember there's limitations on how the contract can be structured. They can't bump his salary a tremendous amount in one year. I don't know all the fine details, but I know that having his salary at something like $2M per season for the first five years, then suddenly his sixth year salary increases to something like 10 times that amount won't be accepted by the league office or NFLPA.

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March 27th, 2014, 12:46 pm
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Post Re: Suh's contract status
That may be extreme but they can still make it a significant bump and would have the seventh year of the deal to load up with base salary. There are numerous big contracts that are signed with similar breakdowns every season with both sides knowing that except in a few occasions they will never see the money from those last few years of the contract. The agents and NFLPA like the deals because it shows a big number of a $100 million with a nice per season average and the players usually get a healthy chunk of change upfront in a signing bonus.


March 27th, 2014, 1:04 pm
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Post Re: Suh's contract status
sweetd20 wrote:
That may be extreme but they can still make it a significant bump and would have the seventh year of the deal to load up with base salary. There are numerous big contracts that are signed with similar breakdowns every season with both sides knowing that except in a few occasions they will never see the money from those last few years of the contract. The agents and NFLPA like the deals because it shows a big number of a $100 million with a nice per season average and the players usually get a healthy chunk of change upfront in a signing bonus.


I don't disagree with what you propose. It's common practice across the NFL. Ultimately, that's what the Lions will end up doing. They did it with Suh's rookie deal, which is why he counts so heavily against the cap this year.

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March 27th, 2014, 1:09 pm
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Post Re: Suh's contract status
The other way they are going to play the system is with the fully guaranteed early years on the contract. Teams have been fully guaranteeing the base salaries in the first 2 years lately so as to give the players high guaranteed amounts without being locked into those huge $100M contracts past the 3rd year mark.


March 27th, 2014, 6:18 pm
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Post Re: Suh's contract status
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Ndamukong Suh already testing leadership of Lions' new coach with no-show at voluntary workouts

The new Detroit Lions head coach is supposed to be far different from the old Lions head coach.

Time to see if that happens.

Jim Caldwell, on the first day he met with his players, found one superstar absent: Ndamukong Suh.

The defensive tackle's decision not to show up for this week's voluntary workouts isn't a red flag on its own. Voluntary workouts are just that, and it's not like Suh is ever out of shape. Suh is working on a new contract and he's not the first standout to sit out while business is done.

"From what I know it's a contract thing so that's the business side of stuff and we all go through it so everybody understands," running back Reggie Bush told reporters on Thursday. "Nobody's looking down on him. I'm sure as soon as he can be here he'll be here."

That defense, though commendable, is weakened by the fact that Suh usually doesn't show up to voluntary workouts – contract limbo or no contract limbo. And that leads to a bigger issue.

The Lions' nagging reputation of having players who don't listen to anyone but themselves was supposed to change under Caldwell. Even if Suh showed up just to show up, visit with Caldwell and then leave, it would give a lift to a team that is trying to rebuild confidence and chemistry after a 6-3 start in 2013 turned into a 7-9 debacle. Instead, Suh is absent and Caldwell is tested early.

Does he just shrug it off? And if so, what won't he shrug off?

"It certainly didn't blindside me," Caldwell told reporters. "We certainly knew. He and I have probably had more discussions than any player that we've had on the team. He's been in and out. I think he was here on a couple days when I came on a visit, so we kind of knew exactly what was going on. But from a coach's standpoint, it's just like anything else. My business is to get in the position to win and win consistently. So we want every single minute of every single hour with every single player. That's the way we want it."

Former Lions coach Jim Schwartz came in as a new wave football brain with an economics degree from Georgetown. He ended up looking like a weak bystander while Lions seasons devolved in a torrent of personal foul penalties, blown assignments and boneheaded errors. His final scene came last December when he botched the last minute in regulation of an overtime loss to the New York Giants, and then yelled at home fans. It was the signature moment of a coach who never exerted control and ended up as petulant as his players. Suh was the coach on the field in the best and worst ways: unafraid but also out of control.

Enter Caldwell, who is as calm as Schwartz is edgy, yet Suh's reputation as being aloof threatens to make Caldwell appear as much of a weak bystander as Schwartz was. What can he do besides give Suh a huge payday and hope for the best?

Caldwell looked like a deer in the headlights at times during his head coaching tenure in Indianapolis, and many fans figured the stars were in charge there too. Except the star of that franchise was Peyton Manning, who gets teammates to fall in line just by showing up. Suh, clearly, does not have that effect. Not yet, anyway.

Suh's absence during voluntary workouts isn't going to derail the 2014 season, but it adds a layer of pressure to the new coach. How is he going to make this team as good as the sum of its parts? If the Lions were even a little bit better in penalties and turnovers last season, they would likely have won a division title. Now, with three mediocre defenses in the NFC North in Chicago, Green Bay and Minnesota, the Lions can win with the kind of togetherness that's eluded them for years under Schwartz. The question is clear and stark: Who leads?

Is it Matthew Stafford, who is forceful on the field but not aggressive with teammates? Is it Calvin Johnson, the best in the NFL at his position but also the quietest? Is it Bush, who called for a players-only meeting last season only to have Stafford insist it wasn't needed? Or is it Suh, who fashioned himself as a head-of-household last season, only to be helpless and toothless as the Lions self-destructed after Thanksgiving?

Suh has played with more maturity as he's gained experience, and he certainly makes others around him better, but the Lions still don't resemble a team that belongs in the same conversation as the Seattle Seahawks or San Francisco 49ers. Something is missing – something beyond gaping holes in the secondary and a lack of depth at receiver.

The Lions under Schwartz couldn't take a punch. When they weren't eliminated early in seasons, they let tremors turn into earthquakes. After a blowout loss to the Philadelphia Eagles in a blizzard, linebacker DeAndre Levy called his team "soft." The rest of the season proved Levy right. It's up to Caldwell to not only appear as something other than soft, but also to foist that resilience onto the team as a whole. Suh would be the perfect lieutenant, as he's one of the most feared players in football, but he would have to first buy in to what Caldwell wants to sell.

For that to happen, the two of them need to be under the same roof.


Just one more thing pointing to the "He don't want to be here anymore" direction IMHO. Has he even started talking contract with Mayhew yet? They were supposed to open contract talks during the owners meetings. But, they got scrubbed.


April 11th, 2014, 9:58 am
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Post Re: Suh's contract status
BillySims wrote:
Quote:
Ndamukong Suh already testing leadership of Lions' new coach with no-show at voluntary workouts

The new Detroit Lions head coach is supposed to be far different from the old Lions head coach.

Time to see if that happens.

Jim Caldwell, on the first day he met with his players, found one superstar absent: Ndamukong Suh.

The defensive tackle's decision not to show up for this week's voluntary workouts isn't a red flag on its own. Voluntary workouts are just that, and it's not like Suh is ever out of shape. Suh is working on a new contract and he's not the first standout to sit out while business is done.

"From what I know it's a contract thing so that's the business side of stuff and we all go through it so everybody understands," running back Reggie Bush told reporters on Thursday. "Nobody's looking down on him. I'm sure as soon as he can be here he'll be here."

That defense, though commendable, is weakened by the fact that Suh usually doesn't show up to voluntary workouts – contract limbo or no contract limbo. And that leads to a bigger issue.

The Lions' nagging reputation of having players who don't listen to anyone but themselves was supposed to change under Caldwell. Even if Suh showed up just to show up, visit with Caldwell and then leave, it would give a lift to a team that is trying to rebuild confidence and chemistry after a 6-3 start in 2013 turned into a 7-9 debacle. Instead, Suh is absent and Caldwell is tested early.

Does he just shrug it off? And if so, what won't he shrug off?

"It certainly didn't blindside me," Caldwell told reporters. "We certainly knew. He and I have probably had more discussions than any player that we've had on the team. He's been in and out. I think he was here on a couple days when I came on a visit, so we kind of knew exactly what was going on. But from a coach's standpoint, it's just like anything else. My business is to get in the position to win and win consistently. So we want every single minute of every single hour with every single player. That's the way we want it."

Former Lions coach Jim Schwartz came in as a new wave football brain with an economics degree from Georgetown. He ended up looking like a weak bystander while Lions seasons devolved in a torrent of personal foul penalties, blown assignments and boneheaded errors. His final scene came last December when he botched the last minute in regulation of an overtime loss to the New York Giants, and then yelled at home fans. It was the signature moment of a coach who never exerted control and ended up as petulant as his players. Suh was the coach on the field in the best and worst ways: unafraid but also out of control.

Enter Caldwell, who is as calm as Schwartz is edgy, yet Suh's reputation as being aloof threatens to make Caldwell appear as much of a weak bystander as Schwartz was. What can he do besides give Suh a huge payday and hope for the best?

Caldwell looked like a deer in the headlights at times during his head coaching tenure in Indianapolis, and many fans figured the stars were in charge there too. Except the star of that franchise was Peyton Manning, who gets teammates to fall in line just by showing up. Suh, clearly, does not have that effect. Not yet, anyway.

Suh's absence during voluntary workouts isn't going to derail the 2014 season, but it adds a layer of pressure to the new coach. How is he going to make this team as good as the sum of its parts? If the Lions were even a little bit better in penalties and turnovers last season, they would likely have won a division title. Now, with three mediocre defenses in the NFC North in Chicago, Green Bay and Minnesota, the Lions can win with the kind of togetherness that's eluded them for years under Schwartz. The question is clear and stark: Who leads?

Is it Matthew Stafford, who is forceful on the field but not aggressive with teammates? Is it Calvin Johnson, the best in the NFL at his position but also the quietest? Is it Bush, who called for a players-only meeting last season only to have Stafford insist it wasn't needed? Or is it Suh, who fashioned himself as a head-of-household last season, only to be helpless and toothless as the Lions self-destructed after Thanksgiving?

Suh has played with more maturity as he's gained experience, and he certainly makes others around him better, but the Lions still don't resemble a team that belongs in the same conversation as the Seattle Seahawks or San Francisco 49ers. Something is missing – something beyond gaping holes in the secondary and a lack of depth at receiver.

The Lions under Schwartz couldn't take a punch. When they weren't eliminated early in seasons, they let tremors turn into earthquakes. After a blowout loss to the Philadelphia Eagles in a blizzard, linebacker DeAndre Levy called his team "soft." The rest of the season proved Levy right. It's up to Caldwell to not only appear as something other than soft, but also to foist that resilience onto the team as a whole. Suh would be the perfect lieutenant, as he's one of the most feared players in football, but he would have to first buy in to what Caldwell wants to sell.

For that to happen, the two of them need to be under the same roof.


Just one more thing pointing to the "He don't want to be here anymore" direction IMHO. Has he even started talking contract with Mayhew yet? They were supposed to open contract talks during the owners meetings. But, they got scrubbed.


First thing with these workouts is the coaches can't work with the players so who cares if he's there or not. Secondly it's been reported he will be at the voluntary mini camp which is where they will be working with coaches. Also Suh has hardly ever shown up for voluntary workouts, like a lot of highly paid players he works out on his own. The contract talks were opened during the owners meetings Mayhew himself said he was speaking to Suh's agent by phone and knew they weren't going to meet face to face at the meetings before hand. Neither side has any reason to expedite the contract talks and I don't see any reason for them to start rushing things until they have to start signing rookies or June 1st and camp cuts start happening.


April 11th, 2014, 11:51 am
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Post Re: Suh's contract status
I think people need to relax on the whole "Suh doesn't want to be here" thing. Stafford didn't sign his contract extension until June. Were people saying those things about him wanting to leave? Not that I recall. This is very simple. Suh has never really come to these workouts, and has always reported in great shape. He's also in the middle of contract negotiations, and players frequently don't show up until those things are done. This happens with many players, and it happens on every team. It's just a fact of life in the NFL. This is nothing to be concerned about at all.

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April 12th, 2014, 6:12 am
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Post Re: Suh's contract status
You have a game that requires a team to function at a high level in order to be successful. There is a finite amount of money available for individual players, but each player wants his maximum amount. The more money each player takes from the pool negatively impacts recruitment of additional quality players. What quality player is going to come to Detroit and take a pay cut?
We have to ask, is the extra money we pay Suh worth the money we will not have for additional quality players? There is no way, and I mean absolutely no way that man will stay in Detroit if we are not paying him an amount nobody else will pay. Period.
We have had our fun with him. Let's hope for a great year from him so some other stupid team can pay so much they can't afford to field a quality team.

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April 16th, 2014, 4:09 pm
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Post Re: Suh's contract status
To everyone: What is the max/year that you would resign Suh for?

I have a hard time spending more than $8 million/year on a DT. I guess I could see going to $10 million/year for a phenomenal DT but he'd have to be phenomenal.

What is the max salary cap now? I suppose that if you assume that the salary cap will increase every year it might be easier to swallow a larger contract.


April 16th, 2014, 9:06 pm
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Post Re: Suh's contract status
Well Ngata got 12.2M/yr in 2011 and Atkins got 11M/yr last year on his extension, so Suh is probably looking for 12.5M-13M if not a little more since the cap is looking to grow by such a large amount in the next few years. If I'm the Lions I wouldn't go more than 12.5M unless I'm sure I can just let Fairley walk and fine bringing in draft picks and journeymen to play next to Suh.


April 16th, 2014, 10:15 pm
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Post Re: Suh's contract status
devildog wrote:
You have a game that requires a team to function at a high level in order to be successful. There is a finite amount of money available for individual players, but each player wants his maximum amount. The more money each player takes from the pool negatively impacts recruitment of additional quality players. What quality player is going to come to Detroit and take a pay cut?
We have to ask, is the extra money we pay Suh worth the money we will not have for additional quality players? There is no way, and I mean absolutely no way that man will stay in Detroit if we are not paying him an amount nobody else will pay. Period.
We have had our fun with him. Let's hope for a great year from him so some other stupid team can pay so much they can't afford to field a quality team.


100% agree, he s not staying here unless lions overpay


April 25th, 2014, 11:34 am
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Post Re: Suh's contract status
rao wrote:
Well Ngata got 12.2M/yr in 2011 and Atkins got 11M/yr last year on his extension, so Suh is probably looking for 12.5M-13M if not a little more since the cap is looking to grow by such a large amount in the next few years. If I'm the Lions I wouldn't go more than 12.5M unless I'm sure I can just let Fairley walk and fine bringing in draft picks and journeymen to play next to Suh.


Well, I look at it this way. The Lions refused to exercise the option for Fairley for next year, at $5.5M for 2015, I believe was the figure. If Suh is looking for a $12.5M per year contract, that's a $7M difference between him and Fairley. So, is Suh REALLY worth more than $7M more than Fairley? Abso-freakin'-lutely NOT!

I could see a contract for around 8 or 9 million per season on average. But 12 to 13 million per season? No way. He's not even close to being THAT good. But I am not going to fault him for negotiating how he is. And the fact is, the Lions could be the ones delaying the process, not Suh. The delay allows the Lions to take a closer look at DTs in the draft, and consider the option recently brought up about trading Suh. Those of you automatically blaming Suh for this are being pretty short sighted.

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April 29th, 2014, 8:41 am
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