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 Suh's absence from voluntary workouts is bad sign for Lions 
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Post Re: Suh's absence from voluntary workouts is bad sign for Li
TheRealWags wrote:
Killwill25 wrote:
I'll say it again, SUH IS THE BEST PLAYER ON THE TEAM
He's better than Calvin? Really? Care to lay out your argument?


I think Suh is more dominant than Calvin. I do understand that others think differently.

I never wanted to trade him, but my sense is or maybe a fear is that Suh may have decided he wants out of Detroit. If that's really what's going on, maybe a trade would work out. If they can sign him, they should. They won't draft someone better in rd 3 like people like to say.

It's also quite possible that this is money leverage. Which Suh is big on I think. All this said, he should be there. This is a giant distraction and not fitting for a team leader who is under contract and in line for a big extension.

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April 23rd, 2014, 10:29 pm
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Post Re: Suh's absence from voluntary workouts is bad sign for Li
TheRealWags wrote:
Killwill25 wrote:
I'll say it again, SUH IS THE BEST PLAYER ON THE TEAM
He's better than Calvin? Really? Care to lay out your argument?

Ok, now this is just my opinion but Suh is just more reliable than CJ. Calvin has far too many ball security issues. Look at our last two Monday night games; in the 2012 game at CHI he went out there and kind of embarrassed us with all the drops and skittish play. Fast forward to the game in December vs the Ravens; again dropped passes all over the place and he played with even less energy than in that previous MNF game. Meanwhile in those same exact games, Suh was making plays(he AGAIN almost killed Jay Cutler) and the defense held those two offenses to 13 and 18 points and 1 TD between the two. The Ravens game was us fighting for a playoff spot and CJ couldn't have played a softer game. I just think that CJ is prone to the choke. We were in position to win the game at home vs TB but Calvin choked in a big way. Hell, he could've had several TDs in week 1 vs MN had he shown any ball security near the goal line.

With Suh, you pretty much know what to expect from him. He's gonna be in the lineup and unless it's a wham play, the offense will try to run away from him. And quite frankly, he is a better on field leader than CJ as well. Calvin is easily the most physically gifted player on the team but I just think that Suh is more reliable.

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April 24th, 2014, 2:26 am
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Post Re: Suh's absence from voluntary workouts is bad sign for Li
BillySims wrote:
And he is likely going to be the best player on someone else's team after next season. Wouldn't you rather get a 1st and 3rd round pick in trade for him instead of a 4th round pick for him as compensation? Because that's what a 3rd round Comp pick is. A 4th rounder. It comes after the 3rd round is completed.


I said it at another forum and I'll say it here. Suh is an asset to our defensive line, but if the Front Office knows that he has no intention of resigning with Detroit or at least not resigning for anything short of an outrageous contract then we should trade him if we can, especially if we could get the #2 pick in the draft (who says we can?).

Suh is a big asset to our defensive line, but he is also very expensive and he's at a non-skill position. He performs well but eats a large amount of salary cap, so his value really may not be as large as it appears--he makes our defensive line better--but does it come at the expense of linebackers and defensive backs?. Also consider that the top 10 defenses in the League including the Super Bowl winner's do not have a players named "Suh" on their roster and yet they had the best defenses.


April 24th, 2014, 6:35 am
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Post Re: Suh's absence from voluntary workouts is bad sign for Li
m2karateman wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
    IIRC he was the only player to not celebrate with the fans when they went to the playoffs
    Not taking responsibility for 'the stomp'
    'I'm just that much stronger than everyone else' (Really?)
    continual rumors/suggestions that he's not staying in Detroit, including coming from his sister
    Holding a team meeting about keeping composure and playing under control, gets personal foul penalty and fined at game the same week
    Not once taking responsibility for his actions on or off the field
    A couple questionable accidents and responses to them (tried to bribe/force female passenger into lying)
First one....big deal. Each player can choose what they want to do.
Second one....I've watched it a bunch of times, and it definitely looks to me like he was just trying to get the player to let go of his foot. Why own up to a 'stomp' that may not have been the case?
OK, he holds a meeting and gets a personal foul and fine. As if the league hasn't put a target on his back and fined him for ridiculous reasons. Stop already.
And lastly, I accept that some of his actions off the field have been bad. However, I also look at the numerous charitable works he's done as well. Included in all that is stuff he's done here in Detroit. Who cares if he lives here?
Perhaps I didn't make it clear in my post; please add your statement of:
m2karateman wrote:
Please, keep your heads about this. He's not thumbing his nose at the team or flipping off the fans. He's doing what most other players in his position do in this scenario.
before the list as the list to meant to show examples of Suh related issues. Regardless of how you or I may personally feel with any of these, they are a part of his history, like it or not.

m2karateman wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
Granted any one or even a couple of these may not mean much, but added together......at some point all these types of things add up and you have to ask yourself if this is the type of person you want on your team and representing your City.

PS: Is the draft here yet?
OK, so if you don't want him on your team, why are you complaining that he's not with the team at workouts? Pick a path.

He's defensive tackle. It's not like he's a quarterback, or a receiver who need to learn a tremendous amount of plays or details. He is highly intelligent and capable of learning. These few days won't make that big a difference. And in the end, his not being there is just as much the fault of Lions management as anything else. You just need to accept that. It's a two way street.
I didn't say I didn't want him on the team; again I apparently didn't make myself clear, my apologies.

In a 'perfect' world, all team leaders should not only be all at team related events, they should be the very first to show up. Now, if Suh no longer want to be a team leader, then IMO his actions are consistent to a regular player/teammate. Which is pretty much my point on this whole ordeal: If Suh is to be a team captain/team leader, then he should act like it. If he doesn't, that's ok too. It seems to me like he wants it both ways. As I believe I've said repeatedly, to me a leader "Leads by example", no excuses. If someone is unable to lead by example, then they are not a leader. For me, its really that simple.

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April 24th, 2014, 9:06 am
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Post Re: Suh's absence from voluntary workouts is bad sign for Li
jrd66 wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
Killwill25 wrote:
I'll say it again, SUH IS THE BEST PLAYER ON THE TEAM
He's better than Calvin? Really? Care to lay out your argument?
I think Suh is more dominant than Calvin. I do understand that others think differently.
Agreed. My main point in saying CJ is better than Suh is that CJ is at this point an almost shoe-in for the HOF. While Suh certainly has the talent to be a HOFer, at this point I'm not sure that he has the temperament (for lack of a better term at the moment) to get there.
jrd66 wrote:
I never wanted to trade him, but my sense is or maybe a fear is that Suh may have decided he wants out of Detroit. If that's really what's going on, maybe a trade would work out. If they can sign him, they should. They won't draft someone better in rd 3 like people like to say.

It's also quite possible that this is money leverage. Which Suh is big on I think. All this said, he should be there. This is a giant distraction and not fitting for a team leader who is under contract and in line for a big extension.
Agreed; well said.
Killwill25 wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
Killwill25 wrote:
I'll say it again, SUH IS THE BEST PLAYER ON THE TEAM
He's better than Calvin? Really? Care to lay out your argument?
Ok, now this is just my opinion but Suh is just more reliable than CJ. Calvin has far too many ball security issues. Look at our last two Monday night games; in the 2012 game at CHI he went out there and kind of embarrassed us with all the drops and skittish play. Fast forward to the game in December vs the Ravens; again dropped passes all over the place and he played with even less energy than in that previous MNF game. Meanwhile in those same exact games, Suh was making plays(he AGAIN almost killed Jay Cutler) and the defense held those two offenses to 13 and 18 points and 1 TD between the two. The Ravens game was us fighting for a playoff spot and CJ couldn't have played a softer game. I just think that CJ is prone to the choke. We were in position to win the game at home vs TB but Calvin choked in a big way. Hell, he could've had several TDs in week 1 vs MN had he shown any ball security near the goal line.

With Suh, you pretty much know what to expect from him. He's gonna be in the lineup and unless it's a wham play, the offense will try to run away from him. And quite frankly, he is a better on field leader than CJ as well. Calvin is easily the most physically gifted player on the team but I just think that Suh is more reliable.
I can certainly understand and see your point, however I think what really sticks out to me, and granted its likely not a fair comparison, but I see CJ continually beat double, triple and quadruple teams.

One thing I think we can all agree on, is that we want to see the Lions live up to their potential and be competitive each and every game.

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April 24th, 2014, 9:37 am
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Post Re: Suh's absence from voluntary workouts is bad sign for Li
Read a report this morning that the Lions are "exploring" trading Suh. This is what I read. Check out fansided.com ..it has the article.

:cheers:

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April 25th, 2014, 10:03 am
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Post Re: Suh's absence from voluntary workouts is bad sign for Li
They would be silly not to explore trade options for him. First, if someone offers an amazing deal it would be crazy not to consider. Second, it is leverage (although minimal) in trade negotiations.

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April 25th, 2014, 10:41 am
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Post Re: Suh's absence from voluntary workouts is bad sign for Li
Emphasis mine
Mike Freeman wrote:
Detroit Lions Attempting to Trade Ndamukong Suh? If They Are, It's Smart
By Mike Freeman , NFL National Lead Writer Apr 25, 2014

The first thing you must understand about Detroit and Ndamukong Suh is that the Lions have indeed had conversations with other teams about trading Suh. This is a fact. What is also true: It's been just talk and not even serious talk. Just a feeling-out of other teams to see what they would be willing to give up for Suh.

This means, quite simply, the Lions are covering their asses, just in case the worst happens. They are gauging interest, seeing what they might be able to get in terms of draft picks, while also not even coming close to pulling any trigger on a trade.

Several team officials believe that, for now, the Lions are just exploring what they could get for Suh in case their contract talks with him completely disintegrate.

"What the Lions are doing is standard operating procedure," one team executive said. "Just in case they don't think they can sign him, they're preparing for worst case. It's smart."

In other words, the Lions are doing their due diligence. They would be foolish not to.

And if they found some deal that actually made sense, they'd be smart to take it. Because Suh is too flammable on the field, and not enough of a leader off it, to be worth that kind of money.

That kind of cash—he currently takes up $22 million in cap space and is looking for a mega-contract—is what you pay quarterbacks. Not interior defensive linemen who can't maintain their self-control.

He becomes a free agent next season. The Lions should let him walk if they can't trade or pay him.

There are two important facts that must be stressed here. First, team officials that have spoken with the Lions believe strongly that the Lions and Suh will work out some sort of arrangement and that Suh will stay in Detroit.

Second, teams thinking of trading for Suh love his ability but do not trust him. At all. In fact, these officials explain, one of the reasons that the Lions might not end up trading Suh is that other teams are nervous about handing him a great deal of cash.

"Every team in football would love to have (Suh)," said one team official, "but his behavior on the field still makes teams nervous. There's a feeling that he has no self-control."


This is the Suh conundrum. The Lions don't want to pay him a massive amount of money because they aren't certain he's worth it. Teams thinking of trading for Suh feel the same.

I've been a critic of Suh in the past. He's a remarkable talent, a delicious combination of ferocity and skill, but he is also a fan of leg kicks, cheap shots and overall dirtiness. There is a feeling among league people that Suh, who has been fined more than $200,000 for various illegalities, cannot be controlled and doesn't understand the optics of his acts. Suh is, easily, the dirtiest player in football.

Most of all, the concern is that Suh isn't a winner.


The latest example of this is Suh not showing up for offseason workouts. The workouts are voluntary, but there isn't a great leader or winner in football that doesn't show up to them. Lions fans, quite the sensitive bunch, believe the criticism of Suh for not appearing at the workouts is a media invention. It's not.

Tom Brady attends voluntary workouts. Aaron Rodgers attends voluntary workouts. So does Peyton Manning. In fact, Manning never stops thinking about football. Neither did Jerry Rice, or most of the other legends and greats.

Suh is a captain beginning with a new coaching staff. This would have been the perfect time to make a positive impression on his new bosses. Instead, he decided to stay home. It's irrelevant that he could still show up to minicamp or training camp in shape. It's more about leadership. He's a captain, and captains are usually the men who set the examples.

Let's put it this way: Suh is in the same company as Cowboys backup quarterback Kyle Orton, who is also not attending voluntary workouts.

It's the extremists in football that win. The men who push themselves. The ones that lead. I know some stars have in the past not attended voluntary workouts, but the percentage that do is almost 100 percent. And don't tell me Rodgers attends solely because of a workout bonus. He'd be there regardless.

Players should be able to have time away from football once the season ends, and they do. Plenty. What the workouts do is tighten the bond between teammates. There are coaches in the NFL that feel the offseason workouts are one of the most important aspects of building team chemistry.

Suh not attending them is a statement about Suh. He's telling the Lions coaches, "Who cares if you're new? Suh does what Suh does."

Jim Caldwell basically responded that he'd like Suh at the workouts but understands why he isn't. Other teammates have said it's not a big deal. They are doing the last thing they should with Suh. They are placating him.

No one should be surprised if Suh is traded, but it continues to look like (for the moment) Suh and the Lions will work out some sort of deal. For the moment, that's how it looks.

Which is unfortunate for the Lions.

Mike Freeman covers the NFL for Bleacher Report.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2040 ... -its-smart

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April 25th, 2014, 11:06 am
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Post Re: Suh's absence from voluntary workouts is bad sign for Li
Pablo wrote:
They would be silly not to explore trade options for him. First, if someone offers an amazing deal it would be crazy not to consider. Second, it is leverage (although minimal) in trade negotiations.
Agreed.

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April 25th, 2014, 11:06 am
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Post Re: Suh's absence from voluntary workouts is bad sign for Li
the writing is on the wall and it has been for a couple of years now. suh wants out of detroit. he s not that interested in winning here, he s interested in money, fame and marketting exposure. i say good riddance. two years ago i wrote that mayhew had a time frame to cash out the suh ticket but its now clear the lions will only get a compensatory pick at best when they lose him in free agency. its another failure on the part of the front office that they failed to recognize this and failed to get something in return. they need to turn the page and move on, forget the negotiations with suh and focus on having a good draft at this point. the front office nailed the draft last year and if they can do that again, nobody should care about what happens with suh


April 25th, 2014, 11:25 am
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