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Post Re: hi everyone
allenslions wrote:
i think the boss backed up my statement exactly today.
With respect, anything any GM says at this time of year is pretty much useless.
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So how many GMs does he trust?

“None,” Mayhew said. “But you can listen to what they say.”

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May 6th, 2014, 12:52 pm
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Post Re: hi everyone
If they haven't done there due diligence and at least gauged the interest and possible scenarios then they are fools and aren't doing their jobs. It's one thing to be in a win now mode but to possibly damage the team long term and either hurt the team with a ridiculous contract or only receive a 2016 3rd round comp pick would show exactly what Mayhew learned from his mentor. As great as Suh is the DT position just isn't a premium position that should take up as much cap space as Suh's contract will more likely consume. The Vikings had arguably e most dominate DT for quite awhile and what do they have to show for it? I'm not saying trade him for a bag of baseballs but at least see what he's worth and if they aren't because of Mayhew's ego or they don't want to upset Suh then they deserve to max out as a team with a few superstars and mostly average at best players on their best days. As much as I don't like the Patriots they contend every year because they have enough talent to overcome losses during the season because they don't allow their star players to hold them hostage looking for more money than the team feels they deserve.


May 6th, 2014, 1:45 pm
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Post Re: hi everyone
Doesn't anyone want to see how Suh might perform in defense other than a wide-9 or one not designed by Schwartz?

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May 6th, 2014, 2:51 pm
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Post Re: hi everyone
suh is not holding the team hostage.he will sign a contract that is fair to both him and the team.and it blows my mind how people complaining about suh,s contract are the same who want us to throw big money at big name free agents and the one thing history has shown us is how badly that works out most of the time but how that hurts a team cap wise.signing your own stars long term is and has always been the blueprint of winning teams.and as for not checking his trade value why would we when we dont plan to move him.we know he is going to resign just like we knew we would get mats deal done.you guys are the one,s concerned not us.


May 6th, 2014, 4:11 pm
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Post Re: hi everyone
The idea of trading a potential HOF'er, to me, is beyond stupid.


May 6th, 2014, 9:14 pm
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Post Re: hi everyone
allenslions wrote:
suh is not holding the team hostage.he will sign a contract that is fair to both him and the team.and it blows my mind how people complaining about suh,s contract are the same who want us to throw big money at big name free agents and the one thing history has shown us is how badly that works out most of the time but how that hurts a team cap wise.signing your own stars long term is and has always been the blueprint of winning teams.and as for not checking his trade value why would we when we dont plan to move him.we know he is going to resign just like we knew we would get mats deal done.you guys are the one,s concerned not us.


I want to eventually be like the Packers and rarely sign a FA.


May 7th, 2014, 7:14 am
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Post Re: hi everyone
BillySims wrote:
allenslions wrote:
suh is not holding the team hostage.he will sign a contract that is fair to both him and the team.and it blows my mind how people complaining about suh,s contract are the same who want us to throw big money at big name free agents and the one thing history has shown us is how badly that works out most of the time but how that hurts a team cap wise.signing your own stars long term is and has always been the blueprint of winning teams.and as for not checking his trade value why would we when we dont plan to move him.we know he is going to resign just like we knew we would get mats deal done.you guys are the one,s concerned not us.


I want to eventually be like the Packers and rarely sign a FA.

That's a good point about wanting to emulate the Packers. I decided to take a quick look at the contracts and salary cap situations of the Lions vs. the Packers just to see how they compare. In particular, I looked at the top 3 biggest cap hits every year for 2013, 2014, and 2015. I then calculated what percent of the teams total cap for the given year was taken up by those top three players. Obviously this isn't an end-all-be-all, but it gives us a glimpse of how the teams have chosen to pay their top players and I thought it was interesting.

It breaks out like this (player and cap number for each given year):

2013
Matt Stafford: $17,820,000
Ndamukong Suh: $10,492,500
Calvin Johnson: $8,773,000
36% of total cap

Aaron Rodgers: $12,000,000
Tramon Williams: $8,500,000
Clay Matthews: $6,710,000
45% of total cap

2014
Ndamukong Suh: $22,412,500
Matt Stafford: $15,820,000
Calvin Johnson: $13,058,000
40% of total cap

Aaron Rodgers: $17,550,000
Clay Matthews: $10,943,750
Tramon Williams: $9,500,000
31% of total cap

2015
Calvin Johnson: $20,558,000
Matt Stafford: $17,721,250
Ndamukong Suh: $13,242,500
42% of total cap

Aaron Rodgers: $18,250,000
Clay Matthews: $12,700,000
Julius Peppers: $12,000,000
44% of total cap


I also did similar calculations for New England, Baltimore, Denver, NY Giants, & New Orleans. I didn't do SF or Seattle as they are both in a very unique situation of winning while their qb is still on his rookie deal. That will change soon.

So what does this show us? Basically, I think it shows that every team has issues with their big stars and their contracts. Each team pays roughly 30-45% of their cap to their top 3 players in a given year, and it varies quite a bit year to year. The Patriots are an outlier, as the highest they get is 34%. I think that has a lot to do with the fact that Brady doesn't demand a monster salary and allows the team to use the extra money to pay other guys. I think it's debatable how effective that is, since they haven't won a championship in many years. It's certainly successful for racking up wins, but maybe not for championships? That's another conversation though. The other thing with the Pats is that for 2015, their 4th, 5th, and 6th ranked guys count for $10.6M, $8.7M, and $8.4M against the cap. Those are big numbers for those rankings.

The other notable things for me is that the other teams (except for the Lions and Packers) generally max out around 35%. Denver is on the hook for 39% in 2015, but all the others are at 35% or lower. Maybe there's something to that being a ceiling of sorts for how much to rack up in your top 3 guys?

Lastly, looking at position, it varies. QB is certainly most common, but there are WR, CB, G, C, DT, and DE in the list. So the top paid guys are all over the place. I'm sure if we looked at all teams league wide we'd also see some OT in there as well.

Anyway, I'm not sure if this really tells us anything, but I thought it was interesting to look at and see where it led. Thoughts?

Also, if this should be in a new thread, mods please feel free to move it. I wasn't sure where to put it, so I just replied here since it is marginally related.

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May 7th, 2014, 9:22 am
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Post Re: hi everyone
I moved this here from the draft rumors thread because I didn't want to derail it.

allenslions wrote:
also we feel are depth is pretty good overall.could we add depth at the oline position sure and we feel really good about our secondary and linebackers.could we still add to those positions? yes but most likely at linebacker.our biggest weak spot is receiver.yes we have calvin and tate but after that we feel we need to be better.


If this is really how the team thinks I'm worried. We need a developmental QB better than Moore. RB I think we have good depth. TE I doubt we focus on now, but an upgrade could be had. WR yes another player or two should be added. I'm still hopeful for Broyles but we shouldn't count on him at this point. Tackle and guard we're ok but a replacement for Sims for next year would be a good addition. Center we need an understudy to Dom. We need another rotational DE. All our DTs are free agents after this season. We really only have two starters at LB. We maybe only have one starter at corner. We're ok at S but Ihedigbo isn't getting any younger. And we don't have a K. We're not 1 player away from being a contender. 5 solid talented guys could help this team more than 1 super star.


May 7th, 2014, 12:12 pm
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Post Re: hi everyone
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
BillySims wrote:
allenslions wrote:
suh is not holding the team hostage.he will sign a contract that is fair to both him and the team.and it blows my mind how people complaining about suh,s contract are the same who want us to throw big money at big name free agents and the one thing history has shown us is how badly that works out most of the time but how that hurts a team cap wise.signing your own stars long term is and has always been the blueprint of winning teams.and as for not checking his trade value why would we when we dont plan to move him.we know he is going to resign just like we knew we would get mats deal done.you guys are the one,s concerned not us.


I want to eventually be like the Packers and rarely sign a FA.

That's a good point about wanting to emulate the Packers. I decided to take a quick look at the contracts and salary cap situations of the Lions vs. the Packers just to see how they compare. In particular, I looked at the top 3 biggest cap hits every year for 2013, 2014, and 2015. I then calculated what percent of the teams total cap for the given year was taken up by those top three players. Obviously this isn't an end-all-be-all, but it gives us a glimpse of how the teams have chosen to pay their top players and I thought it was interesting.

It breaks out like this (player and cap number for each given year):

2013
Matt Stafford: $17,820,000
Ndamukong Suh: $10,492,500
Calvin Johnson: $8,773,000
36% of total cap

Aaron Rodgers: $12,000,000
Tramon Williams: $8,500,000
Clay Matthews: $6,710,000
45% of total cap

2014
Ndamukong Suh: $22,412,500
Matt Stafford: $15,820,000
Calvin Johnson: $13,058,000
40% of total cap

Aaron Rodgers: $17,550,000
Clay Matthews: $10,943,750
Tramon Williams: $9,500,000
31% of total cap

2015
Calvin Johnson: $20,558,000
Matt Stafford: $17,721,250
Ndamukong Suh: $13,242,500
42% of total cap

Aaron Rodgers: $18,250,000
Clay Matthews: $12,700,000
Julius Peppers: $12,000,000
44% of total cap


I also did similar calculations for New England, Baltimore, Denver, NY Giants, & New Orleans. I didn't do SF or Seattle as they are both in a very unique situation of winning while their qb is still on his rookie deal. That will change soon.

So what does this show us? Basically, I think it shows that every team has issues with their big stars and their contracts. Each team pays roughly 30-45% of their cap to their top 3 players in a given year, and it varies quite a bit year to year. The Patriots are an outlier, as the highest they get is 34%. I think that has a lot to do with the fact that Brady doesn't demand a monster salary and allows the team to use the extra money to pay other guys. I think it's debatable how effective that is, since they haven't won a championship in many years. It's certainly successful for racking up wins, but maybe not for championships? That's another conversation though. The other thing with the Pats is that for 2015, their 4th, 5th, and 6th ranked guys count for $10.6M, $8.7M, and $8.4M against the cap. Those are big numbers for those rankings.

The other notable things for me is that the other teams (except for the Lions and Packers) generally max out around 35%. Denver is on the hook for 39% in 2015, but all the others are at 35% or lower. Maybe there's something to that being a ceiling of sorts for how much to rack up in your top 3 guys?

Lastly, looking at position, it varies. QB is certainly most common, but there are WR, CB, G, C, DT, and DE in the list. So the top paid guys are all over the place. I'm sure if we looked at all teams league wide we'd also see some OT in there as well.

Anyway, I'm not sure if this really tells us anything, but I thought it was interesting to look at and see where it led. Thoughts?

Also, if this should be in a new thread, mods please feel free to move it. I wasn't sure where to put it, so I just replied here since it is marginally related.


Great info TDJ. I would not have figured GB, s top 3 to be so close to us. But, I was meaning in regards to free agents.


May 7th, 2014, 2:20 pm
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Post Re: hi everyone
inheritedlionsfan wrote:
I moved this here from the draft rumors thread because I didn't want to derail it.

allenslions wrote:
also we feel are depth is pretty good overall.could we add depth at the oline position sure and we feel really good about our secondary and linebackers.could we still add to those positions? yes but most likely at linebacker.our biggest weak spot is receiver.yes we have calvin and tate but after that we feel we need to be better.


If this is really how the team thinks I'm worried. We need a developmental QB better than Moore. RB I think we have good depth. TE I doubt we focus on now, but an upgrade could be had. WR yes another player or two should be added. I'm still hopeful for Broyles but we shouldn't count on him at this point. Tackle and guard we're ok but a replacement for Sims for next year would be a good addition. Center we need an understudy to Dom. We need another rotational DE. All our DTs are free agents after this season. We really only have two starters at LB. We maybe only have one starter at corner. We're ok at S but Ihedigbo isn't getting any younger. And we don't have a K. We're not 1 player away from being a contender. 5 solid talented guys could help this team more than 1 super star.


Completely agree with your final point. In what might just be the deepest draft EVER for WR's, it would be totally moronic to trade up for a WR.


May 7th, 2014, 2:23 pm
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Post Re: hi everyone
BillySims wrote:
inheritedlionsfan wrote:
I moved this here from the draft rumors thread because I didn't want to derail it.

allenslions wrote:
also we feel are depth is pretty good overall.could we add depth at the oline position sure and we feel really good about our secondary and linebackers.could we still add to those positions? yes but most likely at linebacker.our biggest weak spot is receiver.yes we have calvin and tate but after that we feel we need to be better.


If this is really how the team thinks I'm worried. We need a developmental QB better than Moore. RB I think we have good depth. TE I doubt we focus on now, but an upgrade could be had. WR yes another player or two should be added. I'm still hopeful for Broyles but we shouldn't count on him at this point. Tackle and guard we're ok but a replacement for Sims for next year would be a good addition. Center we need an understudy to Dom. We need another rotational DE. All our DTs are free agents after this season. We really only have two starters at LB. We maybe only have one starter at corner. We're ok at S but Ihedigbo isn't getting any younger. And we don't have a K. We're not 1 player away from being a contender. 5 solid talented guys could help this team more than 1 super star.


Completely agree with your final point. In what might just be the deepest draft EVER for WR's, it would be totally moronic to trade up for a WR.


Depth at the position doesn't matter when its so top heavy. This WR class is built like a damn mace, there is one and only one guy that looks like he could be a legit number one WR and a bunch of WR2/3 guys. This draft is incredibly deep for 2nd and 3rd round talent, so who cares if you lose one second round guy when you'll have one available in the 3rd anyways and multiple chances at 3rd round talent in the 4th. If you can can get a blue chip elite player for the price of a mid to low 1st round talent and a 2nd round guy you'd be an idiot to pass that up.


May 7th, 2014, 2:51 pm
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Post Re: hi everyone
sorry to disagree with you guys here but what do you guys really know about are depth.you guys see our starters on sunday,s .to most of you there just names on our depth chart.we see these guys practice everyday.lets just look at our secondary for example.let,s start with our corners we resigned mathis who was one of the better corners in the nfc last season.and you guys got a small sample of how well chris greenwood played in our final two games.we watched him and slay develop all season and we are very excited about them this year.bill proved to be one of the better nickle corners last season and green and our free agent addition vaughn add quality depth as for safety were again solid with our starters quin and james but were also very excited about isa who we feel we got away with highway robbery with him as he is a very strong young player who in 2012 his rookie season rated higher then delmas, quin and ihedigbo.now could we add a player here yes and i,m sure we will.as for linebacker yes we need to add here but we also like travis lewis and tahir whitehead alot and with whitehead we are really excited to see him in this scheme which fits his skill set much better.and lets not forget palmer who is a nice player that if everything works out we would like to see him in a reserve roll behind levy.so i could go on but i,m getting called away so i,ll talk with you guys again soon.


May 7th, 2014, 4:48 pm
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Post Re: hi everyone
BillySims wrote:
inheritedlionsfan wrote:
I moved this here from the draft rumors thread because I didn't want to derail it.

allenslions wrote:
also we feel are depth is pretty good overall.could we add depth at the oline position sure and we feel really good about our secondary and linebackers.could we still add to those positions? yes but most likely at linebacker.our biggest weak spot is receiver.yes we have calvin and tate but after that we feel we need to be better.


If this is really how the team thinks I'm worried. We need a developmental QB better than Moore. RB I think we have good depth. TE I doubt we focus on now, but an upgrade could be had. WR yes another player or two should be added. I'm still hopeful for Broyles but we shouldn't count on him at this point. Tackle and guard we're ok but a replacement for Sims for next year would be a good addition. Center we need an understudy to Dom. We need another rotational DE. All our DTs are free agents after this season. We really only have two starters at LB. We maybe only have one starter at corner. We're ok at S but Ihedigbo isn't getting any younger. And we don't have a K. We're not 1 player away from being a contender. 5 solid talented guys could help this team more than 1 super star.


Completely agree with your final point. In what might just be the deepest draft EVER for WR's, it would be totally moronic to trade up for a WR.


A deep draft at a position does not mean you have elite talent throughout. What it means is that if you normally find starters into round two or three, and depth player through round six, in this draft you may find starters through round three, maybe four, with depth players throughout and then have some undrafted players that could be good enough to stick on a roster in the right situation.

Elite players are VERY few, in ANY draft. The difference in talent between Sammy Watkins and a player like Allen Robinson is enough that a smart team with a need makes the move.

As I've said before....if Calvin gets hurt, who is our number one receiver right now? Golden Tate. And does he REALLY fit the bill as a number one? No, not even close. He's a good number two receiver, but is better suited as a slot player. Now, if we go and get Sammy Watkins he will definitely have some learning to do, and there will be some hiccups along the way, just like most other rookies. But skill wise, he can be a number one receiver. And between you, me and the water cooler, Calvin is VERY unlikely to be physically capable of playing out his current contract. His injuries keep mounting, and with those injuries his effectiveness will spiral. It takes him longer and longer to recover. If the Lions are TRULY in a win-now mode, they have to get another top level outside receiver. Watkins is THE most pro ready receiver in this draft. Passing up a chance to draft him just so we can keep a second round pick to use on a lesser player is something we'd kick ourselves for later. I'll bet big money that Mayhew almost wishes he would have given Arizona what they wanted when he tried to trade up for Patrick Peterson.

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May 7th, 2014, 5:44 pm
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Post Re: hi everyone
we all learned that we loved peterson but decided on keeping our 2nd and 4th rd pick.so we wouldnt have fairley ,titus and leshoure.but we also could have resigned sammi hill because he wanted to stay but also wanted to start.we learned our lesson some times more is less.


May 7th, 2014, 6:52 pm
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Post Re: hi everyone
allenslions wrote:
we all learned that we loved peterson but decided on keeping our 2nd and 4th rd pick.so we wouldnt have fairley ,titus and leshoure.but we also could have resigned sammi hill because he wanted to stay but also wanted to start.we learned our lesson some times more is less.


I understood why Mayhew didn't make the deal. My understanding was the Arizona wanted more than our 2nd and 4th. I think at this point, most would take Peterson in place of Fairley, Young and LeShoure. The last two might as well not exist, and Mayhew has already stated that Fairley needs to be a better player (consistency). When a chance comes to get an elite prospect, sometimes you should pay the price necessary. Just sayin'.

Question: what is the knock on Corey Fuller? Is he just not understanding the playbook, or is he just not as physically gifted as what was thought? How does the team feel about Brandon Hepburn and his chances of making the team?

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May 7th, 2014, 7:24 pm
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