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 Why is everyone so mad about Ebron? 
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
UK Lion wrote:
Todd Heap
Jeremy Shockey
Dallas Clark
Kellen Winslow II
Heath Miller
Vernon Davis
Greg Olson
Dustin Keller
Brandon Pettigrew
Jermaine Gresham
Kyle Rudolph
Coby Fleener
Tyler Eifert

It's a pretty decent bunch of names. Some superb players in there, some decent ones. I don't think there are any real disasters.

In the "crapshoot" that the draft can be, highest ranked TE appears a relatively safe pick.


I agree, TE does seem to be a decent way to go to avoid getting a full out bust as long as no major injuries happen.

Shockey, Winslow, Olsen, and Davis are the only guys on that list that played or still play a similar way to Ebron. All were first round picks. Only Olsen was drafted late in the round. Davis and Winslow were picked 6th overall. Shockey was drafted at 14. It seems to me the Lions picked Ebron right where you would expect for a TE of his athletic ability and fluidity as a receiver would be drafted.


May 11th, 2014, 7:18 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
Relative disappointment means based on his draft position he's a disappointment - the guy really plays like he was 3rd or 4th rounder. At least his salary isn't outrageous he's around the 15th highest paid tight end even though I still think that makes him overpaid he should be more around 20 to 25.

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May 11th, 2014, 8:45 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
Leo wrote:
I don't understand why people wanted the lions to reach for a defensive player in the first round. The best defensive player on the board was Aaron Donald - he was undersized and wasn't as good as the two guys you already had. I sure you guys would be screaming if they added him for depth with the number one pick.


Aaron Donald is a beast, I had him ranked well ahead of Ebron personally. Suh and Fairley are both on the last year of their contracts and Nick has missed 10 games already in 3 years. He wouldn't have been just a depth play at 10. IMO he was the BPA when the Lions were on the board. In the first round in a deep draft you either trade down or take the BPA.

The Lions seemed to pull the gun on the pick quickly, at least giving the impression that they didn't try to trade down. Detroit is saying he was the 2nd highest ranked offensive player on the board, what I would like to hear is that he was the highest player left on their board at 10. If that is the case, then it was a good pick if they couldn't trade down.

I'm excited to see Ebron on the field, if his production matches that of a 10th pick and he takes heat of CJ - awesome. They did go defense much of the rest of the draft thankfully.

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May 12th, 2014, 9:00 am
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
Pablo wrote:
Leo wrote:
I don't understand why people wanted the lions to reach for a defensive player in the first round. The best defensive player on the board was Aaron Donald - he was undersized and wasn't as good as the two guys you already had. I sure you guys would be screaming if they added him for depth with the number one pick.


Aaron Donald is a beast, I had him ranked well ahead of Ebron personally. Suh and Fairley are both on the last year of their contracts and Nick has missed 10 games already in 3 years. He wouldn't have been just a depth play at 10. IMO he was the BPA when the Lions were on the board. In the first round in a deep draft you either trade down or take the BPA.

The Lions seemed to pull the gun on the pick quickly, at least giving the impression that they didn't try to trade down. Detroit is saying he was the 2nd highest ranked offensive player on the board, what I would like to hear is that he was the highest player left on their board at 10. If that is the case, then it was a good pick if they couldn't trade down.

I'm excited to see Ebron on the field, if his production matches that of a 10th pick and he takes heat of CJ - awesome. They did go defense much of the rest of the draft thankfully.


Mayhew has said that they had already been talking to teams all day about their pick both trading down and up, but he didn't see any viable trades. Multiple teams that picked after the Lions were reported to have been looking to trade down also and couldn't find anything. There just didn't seem to be any value for a trade down at all. It wasn't until the Saints moved up to 20 some one finally pulled the trigger on another trade.


May 12th, 2014, 9:46 am
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
I'm not disputing that, but when you run and turn in your pick with plenty of time on the clock it doesn't send a great message to the fans... Plus, what else would expect a GM to say regardless of whether it is true or not?

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May 12th, 2014, 9:59 am
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
Pablo wrote:
I'm not disputing that, but when you run and turn in your pick with plenty of time on the clock it doesn't send a great message to the fans... Plus, what else would expect a GM to say regardless of whether it is true or not?


I'm pretty sure concern for what the fans think is pretty low on his list of considerations before making a pick and should have absolutely no baring on the situation. I would expect that he just doesn't address it at all if its not true just as most FO people often do. The other thing is his statement fits along with what happened in the draft. There is no logical reason to keep bringing up the possibility of a trade down when after everything played out a trade down didn't happen with anyone close to them after their pick.


May 12th, 2014, 10:20 am
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
Pablo wrote:
Leo wrote:
I don't understand why people wanted the lions to reach for a defensive player in the first round. The best defensive player on the board was Aaron Donald - he was undersized and wasn't as good as the two guys you already had. I sure you guys would be screaming if they added him for depth with the number one pick.


Aaron Donald is a beast, I had him ranked well ahead of Ebron personally. Suh and Fairley are both on the last year of their contracts and Nick has missed 10 games already in 3 years. He wouldn't have been just a depth play at 10. IMO he was the BPA when the Lions were on the board. In the first round in a deep draft you either trade down or take the BPA.

The Lions seemed to pull the gun on the pick quickly, at least giving the impression that they didn't try to trade down. Detroit is saying he was the 2nd highest ranked offensive player on the board, what I would like to hear is that he was the highest player left on their board at 10. If that is the case, then it was a good pick if they couldn't trade down.

I'm excited to see Ebron on the field, if his production matches that of a 10th pick and he takes heat of CJ - awesome. They did go defense much of the rest of the draft thankfully.


I agree with the assessment of Aaron Donald. I had him listed as one of the 'elite' prospects in this draft, along with Watkins, Robinson, Matthews, Clowney, and Mack. Mike Evans I considered borderline, but not quite a blue chipper and Zack Martin was very close to breaking into that list as well, depending on where he is put. If he plays as a guard, he's an elite player.

As Pablo said, I am excited to see what E-squared (I'm officially giving him that nickname) can do on the field. And I hope he is able to take some heat off of CJ and create mismatches. But I really don't feel he was the best player available at that moment.

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May 12th, 2014, 11:53 am
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
rao wrote:
Pablo wrote:
I'm not disputing that, but when you run and turn in your pick with plenty of time on the clock it doesn't send a great message to the fans... Plus, what else would expect a GM to say regardless of whether it is true or not?


I'm pretty sure concern for what the fans think is pretty low on his list of considerations before making a pick and should have absolutely no baring on the situation. I would expect that he just doesn't address it at all if its not true just as most FO people often do. The other thing is his statement fits along with what happened in the draft. There is no logical reason to keep bringing up the possibility of a trade down when after everything played out a trade down didn't happen with anyone close to them after their pick.


I'm not saying doing it for the fans, I said it doesn't send a good message... Why? After following the draft and hearing about some of the trades, I can tell you some are pulled off at the last possible moment. In fact, that applies to many deals in general - when the clock is down to the last minute crazy stuff can happen. Personally, I think it is a dumb idea not to use your fully allotted time when making picks, especially in round 1. I can see trader Jerry Jones picking up the phone with less than a minute to go to try to fix the mess in his DL with a guy like Donald and picking up a few picks in the process. You had the last of 3 solid OTs on the board there (went with the next pick), etc.

Let me ask you this - name one advantage to not waiting your fully allotted time?

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May 12th, 2014, 12:52 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
Pablo wrote:
rao wrote:
Pablo wrote:
I'm not disputing that, but when you run and turn in your pick with plenty of time on the clock it doesn't send a great message to the fans... Plus, what else would expect a GM to say regardless of whether it is true or not?


I'm pretty sure concern for what the fans think is pretty low on his list of considerations before making a pick and should have absolutely no baring on the situation. I would expect that he just doesn't address it at all if its not true just as most FO people often do. The other thing is his statement fits along with what happened in the draft. There is no logical reason to keep bringing up the possibility of a trade down when after everything played out a trade down didn't happen with anyone close to them after their pick.


I'm not saying doing it for the fans, I said it doesn't send a good message... Why? After following the draft and hearing about some of the trades, I can tell you some are pulled off at the last possible moment. In fact, that applies to many deals in general - when the clock is down to the last minute crazy stuff can happen. Personally, I think it is a dumb idea not to use your fully allotted time when making picks, especially in round 1. I can see trader Jerry Jones picking up the phone with less than a minute to go to try to fix the mess in his DL with a guy like Donald and picking up a few picks in the process. You had the last of 3 solid OTs on the board there (went with the next pick), etc.

Let me ask you this - name one advantage to not waiting your fully allotted time?


EXACTLY!! By running up to the podium and making the pick, you are shutting out the possibility of a team changing their minds about a trade offer they may have made. What Mayhew did was VERY reminiscent of the BMW pick. Strategically, it's a brain fart.

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May 12th, 2014, 1:00 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
m2karateman wrote:
Pablo wrote:
Leo wrote:
I don't understand why people wanted the lions to reach for a defensive player in the first round. The best defensive player on the board was Aaron Donald - he was undersized and wasn't as good as the two guys you already had. I sure you guys would be screaming if they added him for depth with the number one pick.


Aaron Donald is a beast, I had him ranked well ahead of Ebron personally. Suh and Fairley are both on the last year of their contracts and Nick has missed 10 games already in 3 years. He wouldn't have been just a depth play at 10. IMO he was the BPA when the Lions were on the board. In the first round in a deep draft you either trade down or take the BPA.

The Lions seemed to pull the gun on the pick quickly, at least giving the impression that they didn't try to trade down. Detroit is saying he was the 2nd highest ranked offensive player on the board, what I would like to hear is that he was the highest player left on their board at 10. If that is the case, then it was a good pick if they couldn't trade down.

I'm excited to see Ebron on the field, if his production matches that of a 10th pick and he takes heat of CJ - awesome. They did go defense much of the rest of the draft thankfully.


I agree with the assessment of Aaron Donald. I had him listed as one of the 'elite' prospects in this draft, along with Watkins, Robinson, Matthews, Clowney, and Mack. Mike Evans I considered borderline, but not quite a blue chipper and Zack Martin was very close to breaking into that list as well, depending on where he is put. If he plays as a guard, he's an elite player.

As Pablo said, I am excited to see what E-squared (I'm officially giving him that nickname) can do on the field. And I hope he is able to take some heat off of CJ and create mismatches. But I really don't feel he was the best player available at that moment.


IMO Donald is a very good prospect, but not elite. He's too small and too much of a tweener to be called elite. He went to probably the best team he possibly could outside of going to a 3-4 team. He's going to have a real hard time with double teams, thankfully he is going to a Dline where doubling him will be virtually impossible.

I would have been happy with Donald as the pick, but I see him and Ebron as equal value at number 10.


May 12th, 2014, 1:05 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
Pablo wrote:
rao wrote:
Pablo wrote:
I'm not disputing that, but when you run and turn in your pick with plenty of time on the clock it doesn't send a great message to the fans... Plus, what else would expect a GM to say regardless of whether it is true or not?


I'm pretty sure concern for what the fans think is pretty low on his list of considerations before making a pick and should have absolutely no baring on the situation. I would expect that he just doesn't address it at all if its not true just as most FO people often do. The other thing is his statement fits along with what happened in the draft. There is no logical reason to keep bringing up the possibility of a trade down when after everything played out a trade down didn't happen with anyone close to them after their pick.


I'm not saying doing it for the fans, I said it doesn't send a good message... Why? After following the draft and hearing about some of the trades, I can tell you some are pulled off at the last possible moment. In fact, that applies to many deals in general - when the clock is down to the last minute crazy stuff can happen. Personally, I think it is a dumb idea not to use your fully allotted time when making picks, especially in round 1. I can see trader Jerry Jones picking up the phone with less than a minute to go to try to fix the mess in his DL with a guy like Donald and picking up a few picks in the process. You had the last of 3 solid OTs on the board there (went with the next pick), etc.

Let me ask you this - name one advantage to not waiting your fully allotted time?


I'm not saying waiting isn't the smarter way to make the pick, but we saw the draft play out. We have hindsight to look at how things went down with the rest of the picks and reports on what some of the other GM were thinking to know a reasonable trade down just wasn't there.


May 12th, 2014, 1:18 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
Pablo wrote:
rao wrote:
Pablo wrote:
I'm not disputing that, but when you run and turn in your pick with plenty of time on the clock it doesn't send a great message to the fans... Plus, what else would expect a GM to say regardless of whether it is true or not?


I'm pretty sure concern for what the fans think is pretty low on his list of considerations before making a pick and should have absolutely no baring on the situation. I would expect that he just doesn't address it at all if its not true just as most FO people often do. The other thing is his statement fits along with what happened in the draft. There is no logical reason to keep bringing up the possibility of a trade down when after everything played out a trade down didn't happen with anyone close to them after their pick.


I'm not saying doing it for the fans, I said it doesn't send a good message... Why? After following the draft and hearing about some of the trades, I can tell you some are pulled off at the last possible moment. In fact, that applies to many deals in general - when the clock is down to the last minute crazy stuff can happen. Personally, I think it is a dumb idea not to use your fully allotted time when making picks, especially in round 1. I can see trader Jerry Jones picking up the phone with less than a minute to go to try to fix the mess in his DL with a guy like Donald and picking up a few picks in the process. You had the last of 3 solid OTs on the board there (went with the next pick), etc.

Let me ask you this - name one advantage to not waiting your fully allotted time?


DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!

Exactly Pablo. I just wanted a legitimate effort to trade down and get more picks.


May 12th, 2014, 2:13 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
BillySims wrote:
Pablo wrote:
rao wrote:
Pablo wrote:
I'm not disputing that, but when you run and turn in your pick with plenty of time on the clock it doesn't send a great message to the fans... Plus, what else would expect a GM to say regardless of whether it is true or not?


I'm pretty sure concern for what the fans think is pretty low on his list of considerations before making a pick and should have absolutely no baring on the situation. I would expect that he just doesn't address it at all if its not true just as most FO people often do. The other thing is his statement fits along with what happened in the draft. There is no logical reason to keep bringing up the possibility of a trade down when after everything played out a trade down didn't happen with anyone close to them after their pick.


I'm not saying doing it for the fans, I said it doesn't send a good message... Why? After following the draft and hearing about some of the trades, I can tell you some are pulled off at the last possible moment. In fact, that applies to many deals in general - when the clock is down to the last minute crazy stuff can happen. Personally, I think it is a dumb idea not to use your fully allotted time when making picks, especially in round 1. I can see trader Jerry Jones picking up the phone with less than a minute to go to try to fix the mess in his DL with a guy like Donald and picking up a few picks in the process. You had the last of 3 solid OTs on the board there (went with the next pick), etc.

Let me ask you this - name one advantage to not waiting your fully allotted time?


DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!

Exactly Pablo. I just wanted a legitimate effort to trade down and get more picks.
While I can certainly understand the sentiment, this is how I see it:
You're at 10
You've identified 7 'blue chip/elite' prospects
You haven't been able to agree to a trade up
You have received no viable offers for a trade down
You're on the clock and 1 of your 7 talents are there, maybe even the last one of the 7
What do you do?
Waste everyone's time waiting for an offer that isn't going to happen?
Make the pick and move on?

Truth be told, I don't know what I would do as I've never been in that situation (and aren't likely to be any time soon); that said, if I felt there were no offers coming in, phone's not ringing, no 'contacts' are producing any sort of noise, then I pick and move on.

Truth is, none of us will ever know what did or didn't happen in the draft room.

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May 12th, 2014, 2:26 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
TheRealWags wrote:
BillySims wrote:
Pablo wrote:
rao wrote:
Pablo wrote:
I'm not disputing that, but when you run and turn in your pick with plenty of time on the clock it doesn't send a great message to the fans... Plus, what else would expect a GM to say regardless of whether it is true or not?


I'm pretty sure concern for what the fans think is pretty low on his list of considerations before making a pick and should have absolutely no baring on the situation. I would expect that he just doesn't address it at all if its not true just as most FO people often do. The other thing is his statement fits along with what happened in the draft. There is no logical reason to keep bringing up the possibility of a trade down when after everything played out a trade down didn't happen with anyone close to them after their pick.


I'm not saying doing it for the fans, I said it doesn't send a good message... Why? After following the draft and hearing about some of the trades, I can tell you some are pulled off at the last possible moment. In fact, that applies to many deals in general - when the clock is down to the last minute crazy stuff can happen. Personally, I think it is a dumb idea not to use your fully allotted time when making picks, especially in round 1. I can see trader Jerry Jones picking up the phone with less than a minute to go to try to fix the mess in his DL with a guy like Donald and picking up a few picks in the process. You had the last of 3 solid OTs on the board there (went with the next pick), etc.

Let me ask you this - name one advantage to not waiting your fully allotted time?


DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!

Exactly Pablo. I just wanted a legitimate effort to trade down and get more picks.
While I can certainly understand the sentiment, this is how I see it:
You're at 10
You've identified 7 'blue chip/elite' prospects
You haven't been able to agree to a trade up
You have received no viable offers for a trade down
You're on the clock and 1 of your 7 talents are there, maybe even the last one of the 7
What do you do?
Waste everyone's time waiting for an offer that isn't going to happen?
Make the pick and move on?

Truth be told, I don't know what I would do as I've never been in that situation (and aren't likely to be any time soon); that said, if I felt there were no offers coming in, phone's not ringing, no 'contacts' are producing any sort of noise, then I pick and move on.

Truth is, none of us will ever know what did or didn't happen in the draft room.


One problem with your argument Wags. Mayhew said there were no worthwhile trade offers. The word WORTHWHILE indicates that there were offers. Maybe a bit more time off the clock and those less than WORTHWHILE offers become WORTHWHILE.


May 12th, 2014, 2:32 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
BillySims wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
BillySims wrote:
Pablo wrote:
rao wrote:
Pablo wrote:
I'm not disputing that, but when you run and turn in your pick with plenty of time on the clock it doesn't send a great message to the fans... Plus, what else would expect a GM to say regardless of whether it is true or not?


I'm pretty sure concern for what the fans think is pretty low on his list of considerations before making a pick and should have absolutely no baring on the situation. I would expect that he just doesn't address it at all if its not true just as most FO people often do. The other thing is his statement fits along with what happened in the draft. There is no logical reason to keep bringing up the possibility of a trade down when after everything played out a trade down didn't happen with anyone close to them after their pick.


I'm not saying doing it for the fans, I said it doesn't send a good message... Why? After following the draft and hearing about some of the trades, I can tell you some are pulled off at the last possible moment. In fact, that applies to many deals in general - when the clock is down to the last minute crazy stuff can happen. Personally, I think it is a dumb idea not to use your fully allotted time when making picks, especially in round 1. I can see trader Jerry Jones picking up the phone with less than a minute to go to try to fix the mess in his DL with a guy like Donald and picking up a few picks in the process. You had the last of 3 solid OTs on the board there (went with the next pick), etc.

Let me ask you this - name one advantage to not waiting your fully allotted time?


DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!

Exactly Pablo. I just wanted a legitimate effort to trade down and get more picks.
While I can certainly understand the sentiment, this is how I see it:
You're at 10
You've identified 7 'blue chip/elite' prospects
You haven't been able to agree to a trade up
You have received no viable offers for a trade down
You're on the clock and 1 of your 7 talents are there, maybe even the last one of the 7
What do you do?
Waste everyone's time waiting for an offer that isn't going to happen?
Make the pick and move on?

Truth be told, I don't know what I would do as I've never been in that situation (and aren't likely to be any time soon); that said, if I felt there were no offers coming in, phone's not ringing, no 'contacts' are producing any sort of noise, then I pick and move on.

Truth is, none of us will ever know what did or didn't happen in the draft room.


One problem with your argument Wags. Mayhew said there were no worthwhile trade offers. The word WORTHWHILE indicates that there were offers. Maybe a bit more time off the clock and those less than WORTHWHILE offers become WORTHWHILE.
I suppose it is possible that had Mayhew waited one of those offers could have become worthwhile, then again its also possible that during the previous discussions Mayhew had on these offers that he was certain they would never become worthwhile.

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May 12th, 2014, 2:40 pm
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