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 Why is everyone so mad about Ebron? 
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
BillySims wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
BillySims wrote:
Pablo wrote:
rao wrote:
Pablo wrote:
I'm not disputing that, but when you run and turn in your pick with plenty of time on the clock it doesn't send a great message to the fans... Plus, what else would expect a GM to say regardless of whether it is true or not?


I'm pretty sure concern for what the fans think is pretty low on his list of considerations before making a pick and should have absolutely no baring on the situation. I would expect that he just doesn't address it at all if its not true just as most FO people often do. The other thing is his statement fits along with what happened in the draft. There is no logical reason to keep bringing up the possibility of a trade down when after everything played out a trade down didn't happen with anyone close to them after their pick.


I'm not saying doing it for the fans, I said it doesn't send a good message... Why? After following the draft and hearing about some of the trades, I can tell you some are pulled off at the last possible moment. In fact, that applies to many deals in general - when the clock is down to the last minute crazy stuff can happen. Personally, I think it is a dumb idea not to use your fully allotted time when making picks, especially in round 1. I can see trader Jerry Jones picking up the phone with less than a minute to go to try to fix the mess in his DL with a guy like Donald and picking up a few picks in the process. You had the last of 3 solid OTs on the board there (went with the next pick), etc.

Let me ask you this - name one advantage to not waiting your fully allotted time?


DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!

Exactly Pablo. I just wanted a legitimate effort to trade down and get more picks.
While I can certainly understand the sentiment, this is how I see it:
You're at 10
You've identified 7 'blue chip/elite' prospects
You haven't been able to agree to a trade up
You have received no viable offers for a trade down
You're on the clock and 1 of your 7 talents are there, maybe even the last one of the 7
What do you do?
Waste everyone's time waiting for an offer that isn't going to happen?
Make the pick and move on?

Truth be told, I don't know what I would do as I've never been in that situation (and aren't likely to be any time soon); that said, if I felt there were no offers coming in, phone's not ringing, no 'contacts' are producing any sort of noise, then I pick and move on.

Truth is, none of us will ever know what did or didn't happen in the draft room.


One problem with your argument Wags. Mayhew said there were no worthwhile trade offers. The word WORTHWHILE indicates that there were offers. Maybe a bit more time off the clock and those less than WORTHWHILE offers become WORTHWHILE.


Titans used their whole clock waiting to make a trade and passed on an offer from the browns to trade up to #11. Maybe it wasn't the best move to not wait, but it's just as likely every teams offer the Lions received was so awful it was a complete waste of time to wait for someone to add something to an offer. As far as we know Mayhew could have only found one interested team and things were already settled as to what max compensation would be. You can't say just because Mayhew didn't spend 10 mins sitting by a phone that he didn't make a legit effort at making a trade down.


May 12th, 2014, 2:48 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
Not saying he didn't try. Question remains, what advantage is there to not waiting your full time?

I understand that with 5 minutes left if you haven't had a productive conversation about trading down chances are it won't happen. But you NEVER know unless you wait out those five minutes. What you do know, is if you turn in your card 5 minutes early there is ZERO chance of a trade happening in those final 5 minutes.

Let me put another way, if Kate Upton says to me there is a small possibility that she will meet me for a date on 5/12/2014, if she hasn't shown up by 11:55pm chances are she ain't coming. Then again, imagine if you walk out and at 11:58pm the blond bombshell walks in...

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May 12th, 2014, 4:40 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
I think Ebron is a phenomenal pick. I would've liked to see them trade back and get Clinton-Dix but with Watkins and Evans gone, this was the most logical pick to find a "playmaker"

It remains to be seen if he will be the guy we need but I am confused as well why everyone seems (or the media pundits exaggerate that) this was not a good pick. Pass out the Kool Aid and get optimistic, it will be an interesting division next season!

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May 13th, 2014, 1:08 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
chilledmonkeybrains wrote:
I think Ebron is a phenomenal pick. I would've liked to see them trade back and get Clinton-Dix but with Watkins and Evans gone, this was the most logical pick to find a "playmaker"

It remains to be seen if he will be the guy we need but I am confused as well why everyone seems (or the media pundits exaggerate that) this was not a good pick. Pass out the Kool Aid and get optimistic, it will be an interesting division next season!


Unless the Lions plan on using E-squared in the majority of their offensive packages, it was something of a waste. Now, if the Lions plan on using more two TE packages, such that it will be the base package and used 60% of their snaps, or more, then it makes sense. Perhaps that's the plan. But on the surface, without knowing their definitive plans, it seems more a luxury pick then something they really needed to do. Other players were on the board that filled more immediate needs. And people can speak all they want about how Ebron is a receiver, and that's what the Lions needed. Wrong. Tight end and wide receiver are two completely different positions and bring different dynamics to the offense. Ebron is a good threat down the middle, but that doesn't necessarily draw heat off Calvin.

We'll see how it works out. In the mean time, people are entitled to their opinions. I hope it works out as well as you foresee. I have my doubts.

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May 14th, 2014, 12:45 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
m2karateman wrote:
chilledmonkeybrains wrote:
I think Ebron is a phenomenal pick. I would've liked to see them trade back and get Clinton-Dix but with Watkins and Evans gone, this was the most logical pick to find a "playmaker"

It remains to be seen if he will be the guy we need but I am confused as well why everyone seems (or the media pundits exaggerate that) this was not a good pick. Pass out the Kool Aid and get optimistic, it will be an interesting division next season!


Unless the Lions plan on using E-squared in the majority of their offensive packages, it was something of a waste. Now, if the Lions plan on using more two TE packages, such that it will be the base package and used 60% of their snaps, or more, then it makes sense. Perhaps that's the plan. But on the surface, without knowing their definitive plans, it seems more a luxury pick then something they really needed to do. Other players were on the board that filled more immediate needs. And people can speak all they want about how Ebron is a receiver, and that's what the Lions needed. Wrong. Tight end and wide receiver are two completely different positions and bring different dynamics to the offense. Ebron is a good threat down the middle, but that doesn't necessarily draw heat off Calvin.

We'll see how it works out. In the mean time, people are entitled to their opinions. I hope it works out as well as you foresee. I have my doubts.


I think it's odd you even question how often they plan on using Ebron. Both the player and the coaching staff have said they want to use him like Jimmy Graham has been used. Pett saw the larger amount of snaps before but now he's become more of the roleplayer to a new starting TE.

I don't feel a 3rd receiving option for the offense was a luxury pick. To me it was a need because they don't have a TE or WR to be that. IMO people need to stop only thinking of taking heat off CJ, the Lions proved last year they need guys that can produce with all the heat on CJ. CJ has made plays all this time with the coverage all towards him and I'm not sure he could really even do that much more if he was freed up. The Lions need guys other than CJ to make things happen in the passing game. Tate did that in Seattle and Ebron looks to have the talent to do that down the middle of the field.


May 14th, 2014, 1:27 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
rao wrote:
I think it's odd you even question how often they plan on using Ebron. Both the player and the coaching staff have said they want to use him like Jimmy Graham has been used. Pett saw the larger amount of snaps before but now he's become more of the roleplayer to a new starting TE.

I don't feel a 3rd receiving option for the offense was a luxury pick. To me it was a need because they don't have a TE or WR to be that. IMO people need to stop only thinking of taking heat off CJ, the Lions proved last year they need guys that can produce with all the heat on CJ. CJ has made plays all this time with the coverage all towards him and I'm not sure he could really even do that much more if he was freed up. The Lions need guys other than CJ to make things happen in the passing game. Tate did that in Seattle and Ebron looks to have the talent to do that down the middle of the field.


Why is it odd to expect that the 10th overall pick will play most of the time? I think that most teams will expect that from their first round pick, outside of the QB position. If a player is selected in the first round and doesn't break the starting lineup, they are typically considered a disappointment, if not a flat out bust. And the Lions just handed Pettigrew a $4M/year contract. You don't give that kind of money to 'role players'.

As for taking the heat off CJ, that MUST be done because he is physically breaking down. The idea of taking a wide receiver versus a tight end was based on the idea that CJ won't always be around, and getting a qualified WR that could eventually be a bonafide #1 wide out would be a great thing. Ebron doesn't fit that qualification. I agree that Calvin will continue to draw more attention to himself.....UNTIL someone else can step in and force the opposing team to pick their poison. That was the whole idea of getting more receiving talent. However, it still remains that if Calvin goes down to injury we have no one on our roster who fits the #1 receiver mold. Not Tate, not Ebron, not anyone.

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May 15th, 2014, 2:01 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
m2k, I think what you missed from Rao's post is that it's odd to question whether or not the coaching staff plans to use E2 extensively.

Jimmy Graham played something like 80-90% of NOLA's offense snaps last season. I thus expect E2 to see at the bare minimum 60% of the Lion's snaps.


May 15th, 2014, 2:31 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
m2karateman wrote:
rao wrote:
I think it's odd you even question how often they plan on using Ebron. Both the player and the coaching staff have said they want to use him like Jimmy Graham has been used. Pett saw the larger amount of snaps before but now he's become more of the roleplayer to a new starting TE.

I don't feel a 3rd receiving option for the offense was a luxury pick. To me it was a need because they don't have a TE or WR to be that. IMO people need to stop only thinking of taking heat off CJ, the Lions proved last year they need guys that can produce with all the heat on CJ. CJ has made plays all this time with the coverage all towards him and I'm not sure he could really even do that much more if he was freed up. The Lions need guys other than CJ to make things happen in the passing game. Tate did that in Seattle and Ebron looks to have the talent to do that down the middle of the field.


Why is it odd to expect that the 10th overall pick will play most of the time? I think that most teams will expect that from their first round pick, outside of the QB position. If a player is selected in the first round and doesn't break the starting lineup, they are typically considered a disappointment, if not a flat out bust. And the Lions just handed Pettigrew a $4M/year contract. You don't give that kind of money to 'role players'.

As for taking the heat off CJ, that MUST be done because he is physically breaking down. The idea of taking a wide receiver versus a tight end was based on the idea that CJ won't always be around, and getting a qualified WR that could eventually be a bonafide #1 wide out would be a great thing. Ebron doesn't fit that qualification. I agree that Calvin will continue to draw more attention to himself.....UNTIL someone else can step in and force the opposing team to pick their poison. That was the whole idea of getting more receiving talent. However, it still remains that if Calvin goes down to injury we have no one on our roster who fits the #1 receiver mold. Not Tate, not Ebron, not anyone.


You missed what I was saying. I'm not saying its odd you want Ebron on the field a lot, I think it's odd you think he won't be. The Lions have made it very apparent they are planning to make him a huge part of the offense just as Jimmy Graham is in NO. Pett's contract is irrelevant to how he will be used. It was signed before they had a new TE and at the time he was in the plans as the starter, that doesn't seem to be the case any more and even in a reserve role he should still see the field plenty enough to make his contract not a completely awful one.

I agree CJ needs a break because of how hard teams play against him. The Lions missed on the only WR that looked to be able to do that for them, it is very debatable there was another WR that would become a future #1. I feel once Watkins was gone they had a better chance to get a WR with the potential to be a number 1 in the 2nd and 3rd rounds then what was left in the 1st. I totally agree that the Lions left themselves totally screwed if CJ goes down. When they couldn't get good value to get Watkins it seems they just went all in praying for no injuries to CJ. Without any major injuries to CJ or Tate, the Ebron pick can easily do what a 3rd WR would have.


May 15th, 2014, 2:48 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
Blueskies wrote:
m2k, I think what you missed from Rao's post is that it's odd to question whether or not the coaching staff plans to use E2 extensively.

Jimmy Graham played something like 80-90% of NOLA's offense snaps last season. I thus expect E2 to see at the bare minimum 60% of the Lion's snaps.


Thanks Blueskies, that is what I was trying to say.


May 15th, 2014, 2:49 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
Blueskies wrote:
m2k, I think what you missed from Rao's post is that it's odd to question whether or not the coaching staff plans to use E2 extensively.

Jimmy Graham played something like 80-90% of NOLA's offense snaps last season. I thus expect E2 to see at the bare minimum 60% of the Lion's snaps.


Who is the backup TE in New Orleans? Without looking up their roster, who is their second TE? Don't know? Neither do I or about 80% of other football fans outside the state of Louisiana. And before they took Jimmy Graham, in the THIRD ROUND, 95TH OVERALL and not in the first round, tenth overall, I don't believe the Saints just gave a new $4M/year deal to their incumbent starting TE.

I don't think my question is odd at all. The Lions played two TE sets last season, and did so successfully with Pett and Fauria. But they didn't use that set 60% of the time. I admit that Ebron is a better receiver than both of them. But it still comes down to whether or not he was the best value, based on talent and need at the position, versus other possibilities? Is Ebron going to supplant Pettigrew as the primary TE in single TE sets? I have serious doubts. The fact is, if he does, you KNOW the opposing team will expect a passing play during those times. That may or may not work to the Lions advantage. It would all depend on how well Ebron blocks during a run play.

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May 15th, 2014, 2:50 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
m2karateman wrote:
Blueskies wrote:
m2k, I think what you missed from Rao's post is that it's odd to question whether or not the coaching staff plans to use E2 extensively.

Jimmy Graham played something like 80-90% of NOLA's offense snaps last season. I thus expect E2 to see at the bare minimum 60% of the Lion's snaps.


Who is the backup TE in New Orleans? Without looking up their roster, who is their second TE? Don't know? Neither do I or about 80% of other football fans outside the state of Louisiana. And before they took Jimmy Graham, in the THIRD ROUND, 95TH OVERALL and not in the first round, tenth overall, I don't believe the Saints just gave a new $4M/year deal to their incumbent starting TE.

I don't think my question is odd at all. The Lions played two TE sets last season, and did so successfully with Pett and Fauria. But they didn't use that set 60% of the time. I admit that Ebron is a better receiver than both of them. But it still comes down to whether or not he was the best value, based on talent and need at the position, versus other possibilities? Is Ebron going to supplant Pettigrew as the primary TE in single TE sets? I have serious doubts. The fact is, if he does, you KNOW the opposing team will expect a passing play during those times. That may or may not work to the Lions advantage. It would all depend on how well Ebron blocks during a run play.


Of course the Lions didn't us Fauria and Pett heavily, Fauria was terrible outside the redzone. Fauria is not a TE that should be used like that right now given his poor route running and lack of speed.


May 15th, 2014, 3:17 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
Though i understand the pick and am excited to see what Ebron can do in this offense, i do have to agree with M2K about having no one to step into the #1 WR role if need be. Now I wonder who they plan on getting in the future to address that. I know one thing, if they draft a WR in the 1st round NEXT YEAR, theyll probably lose half their fan base.

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May 15th, 2014, 4:42 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
I think Taylor Lewan was actually the best player on the board when the Lions drafted (I had him going #6) - the Titans who didn't need a tackle took him with the very next pick.

I really think there were 4 players in play for Detroit at #10 Lewan, Donald, Ebron and Beckham. Taking a defensive back or linebacker with Gilbert and Barr off the board would have been a total reach I even feel the Bears reached for Kyle Fuller at 14.

Lewan and Donald don't fill needs for the Lions going into this season and maybe beyond. If the pick came down to Ebron and Beckham - I'm glad they took Ebron because he brings more to the table than another undersized slot receiver.

As for not letting the clock wind down doesn't really matter. I doubt the Lions were willing to trade down below the bears and risk having the Bears take a guy they wanted. I sure the Lions talked to the Titans, Giants and Rams and didn't find any takers.

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May 16th, 2014, 10:09 am
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
Leo wrote:
the Titans who didn't need a tackle took him with the very next pick..


I think the Titans definitely needed a tackle. Michael Roos is in the last year of his contract and is almost 32 anyway. Oher definitely isnt a LT.

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May 16th, 2014, 2:14 pm
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Post Re: Why is everyone so mad about Ebron?
Pablo, Kate would probably bring Verlander with her. All you would get is a couple of autographs, maybe a picture or two, a free meal (maybe) and a case of blue balls. The question would be who or what caused the blue balls.


May 17th, 2014, 6:59 pm
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