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 Planet X: discussion 
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Walk On

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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
njroar wrote:
It's a measure of distance, but by calculating the distance and how it relates to our time, you can form a translation of how much time passes. Physics for the win.


It was beside the point anyway ... out of my entire post, that's what he focused on ... instead of science vs thousand year old ghost stories and internet crackpot stuff that even a decent high school science education could refute using basic principles (e.g. "where is the gravitational evidence" ... and a few recent earthquakes is an entirely hilarious answer).


June 3rd, 2014, 5:52 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
I'm on your side -- you would know that if you had read the topic.

On that note, you basically just necro'd a dead topic. Steven is long gone, having been dismissed by just about everyone on this forum as a crank. You're shadow boxing.


June 3rd, 2014, 6:24 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Okay, I'll bite.

Is this the same alternate universe where you have faith in God?

The other thing I find laughable is that you make claims as if you are in a position to dictate what "God" would use to tell time. Spacetime as compared to something else. Seems audacious to me!

Forgive me for being very basic in my science abilities, but the pattern of sunrise to sunset seems to set a "time frame", and then of course you have the seasonal changes and all, and this also denotes a time frame. So is it quite possible that a creation in all of it's infinite design 1. speaks of a creator and not a primordial, happenstance swamp, 2. That a Creator would use NATURAL things he created as a way of denoting time? It's kind of like creating a mouse trap and then winding it up and letting it go. All the parts and pieces are designed for a purpose and interlock according to their design. When the start button is pushed, they run according to their design.

I know it's basic, and I apologize for the weak example, but it's the best one I could come up with. Btw, I'm not looking for arguments, I was just responding to the alternate universe.

As for Steven, he is a man that I brought in, who is much more analytical and scientific than I was. I knew that I could not explain the things he was talking about with any accuracy, and so I asked him to come in. He tried to carry on a discussion but, was met with the usual Lionbacker tongue lashing and decided he'd had enough.

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June 5th, 2014, 9:21 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
I don't think a creator would set time by natural things. First, nothing is natural to him but rather God created. Second, if time does exist to him it already did before he created the universe (I've always found it funny in the Bible how on they use our terms like days (one the first day) yet days didn't exist until he created them). In addition, God wouldn't use something like a sunset to denote time because he "is everywhere" rather than in a fixed spot on earth - there is always a sunset and a sunrise happening at the same time/day and night. To God, there is no "start" button like there is to us.

In addition, if he created the universe why would he use anything on Earth out of the trillions of planets to set time? Our sun and our planet don't seem all that special in the universal big picture, actually the more we learn the more we find similar suns and Earth-like planets.

We think in limited human terms, it would probably be impossible for us to comprehend God's concept of time.

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June 5th, 2014, 10:20 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Okay, I'll bite.

Is this the same alternate universe where you have faith in God?

The other thing I find laughable is that you make claims as if you are in a position to dictate what "God" would use to tell time. Spacetime as compared to something else. Seems audacious to me!

Forgive me for being very basic in my science abilities, but the pattern of sunrise to sunset seems to set a "time frame", and then of course you have the seasonal changes and all, and this also denotes a time frame. So is it quite possible that a creation in all of it's infinite design 1. speaks of a creator and not a primordial, happenstance swamp, 2. That a Creator would use NATURAL things he created as a way of denoting time? It's kind of like creating a mouse trap and then winding it up and letting it go. All the parts and pieces are designed for a purpose and interlock according to their design. When the start button is pushed, they run according to their design.

I know it's basic, and I apologize for the weak example, but it's the best one I could come up with. Btw, I'm not looking for arguments, I was just responding to the alternate universe.

As for Steven, he is a man that I brought in, who is much more analytical and scientific than I was. I knew that I could not explain the things he was talking about with any accuracy, and so I asked him to come in. He tried to carry on a discussion but, was met with the usual Lionbacker tongue lashing and decided he'd had enough.

You keep saying the bolded part, but it's simply not true. In this very thread it was extensively pointed out that he was reacting to one person and based on that one person he decided to leave. The rest of us asked him legitimate questions and he chose not to answer. He wanted to spout off a lot of wild, unsubstantiated claims without being questioned on them, and then when he was questioned, he left. What he did would be the equivalent of going onto the Lions section of this board, posting that the Vikings are unequivocally better than the Lions in every way, and then being upset when people call you out on it. It's absurd.

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June 6th, 2014, 2:26 am
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Also, there are parts of earth where there are no seasons (near the equator), and no sunrise/sunset (near the north pole). Even if you limit your point of view to Earth, you still don't have a very reliable time scale.


June 6th, 2014, 9:05 am
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Pablo wrote:
I don't think a creator would set time by natural things. First, nothing is natural to him but rather God created. Second, if time does exist to him it already did before he created the universe (I've always found it funny in the Bible how on they use our terms like days (one the first day) yet days didn't exist until he created them). In addition, God wouldn't use something like a sunset to denote time because he "is everywhere" rather than in a fixed spot on earth - there is always a sunset and a sunrise happening at the same time/day and night. To God, there is no "start" button like there is to us.

In addition, if he created the universe why would he use anything on Earth out of the trillions of planets to set time? Our sun and our planet don't seem all that special in the universal big picture, actually the more we learn the more we find similar suns and Earth-like planets.

We think in limited human terms, it would probably be impossible for us to comprehend God's concept of time.


Very we'll said in the first paragraph! That's my feelings exactly. I would argue with about finding earth like planets though. As more time goes on and as we discover more and more suns, we are finding out how rare our little marble is. To my knowledge we have yet to confirm finding another habitable planet. There are maybe one or two we think might be able to, but our satellites haven't gotten close enough to confirm it yet. If I'm wrong please correct me, but we are discovering new planets at a better rate than one a week, and as more time goes on more and more scientists are starting to wonder if we are unique.

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June 6th, 2014, 9:26 am
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
We really have no clue about other planets. We just found a super earth, a rock planet 17x the size of our planet:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ought.html

Previous theories suggested that such a discovery was impossible -- that gigantic planets couldn't be made out of rock, but instead had to be gas giants like our own Jupiter or Saturn. Any attempt to gauge the number of life-supporting planets in the known universe is going to be deeply flawed, as our understanding is so woefully limited.

There is Fermi's Paradox, which is fascinating when you think about it (if there is alien life in the universe, why haven't we come into contact with them yet?). But we simply don't have a clue. Personally, if you could say definitively that our species was the only intelligent species in the universe, then I would be far more inclined to hold religious beliefs, but of course, it would be impossible to make such a statement.


June 6th, 2014, 10:50 am
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Blueskies wrote:
We really have no clue about other planets. We just found a super earth, a rock planet 17x the size of our planet:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ought.html

Previous theories suggested that such a discovery was impossible -- that gigantic planets couldn't be made out of rock, but instead had to be gas giants like our own Jupiter or Saturn. Any attempt to gauge the number of life-supporting planets in the known universe is going to be deeply flawed, as our understanding is so woefully limited.

There is Fermi's Paradox, which is fascinating when you think about it (if there is alien life in the universe, why haven't we come into contact with them yet?). But we simply don't have a clue. Personally, if you could say definitively that our species was the only intelligent species in the universe, then I would be far more inclined to hold religious beliefs, but of course, it would be impossible to make such a statement.


Agreed. it would take thousands of years of searching to begin to make such a claim. The common sense thinking says there HAS to be other life bearing planets out there. With as many stars that exist it just seems too unlikely for there not to be. But so far, with the whole 1 to 2 percent of space we have managed to explore (if even that much!) it's looking to be more rare to find one than what we originally imagined.

on an interesting tangent, I watched a You Tube video the other day with a thought about why we havnt seen any evidence of Alien Life, and the theory was presented that we may simply be to dumb to have noticed them as a speices. The thought process went like this: Do fish recognize human existance? We obviously have an impact on their world and are ever present, but they have yet to show any signs of recognizing us untill we yank them out of the water. The same old actions for catching them has worked for thousands of years and they still have not adjusted to make catching them more dificult. There is the posability that they are simply too stupid to recognize anything outside of their own simple survival, and creatures outside the water simply go unacknowledged. Now we as Humans think we're pretty smart, and plenty observant, but compared to a race that is smart enough to not only exist for prolonged periods in space (something that our body's could not handle at this point in our evolution) and on top of that smart enough to travel at rediculous speeds top make space travel plausable, it is entirley possible they can go unoticed due to our "ignorance."
I dont know how much of that I buy, but it is an interesting thought.

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June 6th, 2014, 12:12 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
With how large the universe could be maybe Earth is just in a section that hasn't been explored by a space traveling species or humans are just not that interesting.


June 6th, 2014, 12:44 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
rao wrote:
With how large the universe could be maybe Earth is just in a section that hasn't been explored by a space traveling species or humans are just not that interesting.


IMO the first part is most likely...the 2nd part not so much. With as rare as intelligent life seems to be in the universe, it seems that higher evolved species would at least like to keep track of the ones dicovered. Especially with our violent nature, it seems they would be watching us very closely as we got more involved in space if they knew we existed.


but ...as was pointed out earlier...it's all speculation at this point. FUN speculation though aint it! ;)

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June 6th, 2014, 1:39 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
Yeah - the sun never sets... we just spin away from it every 24 hours or so, on our tilted little planet.

I'd have to look it up, but IIRC scientists are not growing to believe that we are unique... but are more & more overwhelmed with what they are finding in terms of planets - the size and composition of which they still need to infer from apparent gravitational impact on other things. We are finding more & more planets in zones that we believe can be habitated (good distance from a star), and of a rocky composition like ours. But we'll never visit there, or even develop a way to communicate with anything if it were there... we're simply too far away.

We're such navel-gazers. Our brains can't even comprehend the sheer scale of the universe, and the distance between things. Remember - many of the stars we see at night actually sent that light traveling our way millions of years ago....sometimes thousands of millions. Some of that starlight started on its way before our sun even existed - we just popped up 4.5 billion years ago, in its way.

Any radio wave or communication we send "out there' has hardly travelled at all, in terms of distance in light years. What scientists believe, is that the only way life from elsewhere could contact us would be if they were so advanced as to have learned out to manipulate worm holes or travel using black holes into some kind of a shortcut across spacetime. I do believe that an alien race might be interested in us, if they knew about us. But they would be so technically advanced that they would probably view us as highly primitive. It would be comical to see what they thought about our world's multitude of religions, and their adamant positions that they alone possess the only truth about the magical origin of our little world... if they could understand our crazy rantings and self-referential explanations for things.

It is probably better than no alien race ever comes here. They could probably squash us, technically. And our resources would be tempting to them... it would be like taking candy from a baby.


June 7th, 2014, 1:59 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
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It is probably better than no alien race ever comes here. They could probably squash us, technically. And our resources would be tempting to them... it would be like taking candy from a baby.


I doubt it. Resources are nearly infinite in space. Any highly advanced species that wanted our resources could get it from someplace else -- assuming they haven't developed the technology to materialize anything they wanted.


June 7th, 2014, 3:12 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
A case could easily be made that civilizations that advanced wouldn't be aggressive in any way. We really would offer nothing more than raw resources in comparison of tech and like Blueskies said it would probably just make more sense for them to mine an empty planet. That even ignores the fact our world could just be totally toxic to this other species and something like Mars could be what they are actually looking for instead.


June 7th, 2014, 4:28 pm
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Post Re: Planet X: discussion
We're the most advanced life forms on earth - and also arguably the most aggressive/violent. I'm not sure that assumption really holds...

I understand that raw materials are plentiful in the universe - but being a habitable place with raw materials right here is the important variable. At least I'd think it is. It is a cool thought experiment.

I also like the "War of the Worlds" take of our environment being toxic ... but I'll assume an advanced civilization would have figured out the medical defenses for things like bacteria and viruses, and have solved that. Unless they have a Jenny McCarthy on their planet as well. lol


June 8th, 2014, 4:18 pm
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