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 Tigers rebuild? 
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Post Tigers rebuild?
I will do this in segments for organization purposes

Verlander Traded: Frankin Perez RHP, Daz Cameron OF, Jake Rogers C, Upton traded for Grayson Long

SP: Fulmer, 24
SP: Mike Fiers, 32, Tigers gave him $6m to see if he can provide 150innings and return to form after 2 year regression. Best case scenario he gets them back a prospect at the deadline.

SP: Boyd, 26, has shown flashes and there is development, could be an average back end starter.
SP: Zimmerman, 31, (under contract for 2018-2020 for $74m)
SP: Norris, 24, rough year for him wonder if he ll ever put it together. Still has time, could be a No 3 starter.

AAA: Farmer, 26, has some upside and can miss bats. Back end of rotation or possibly ends up in relief.
AAA: VerHagen, 26, may become a middle relief or long option out of pen for a couple years. Not likely a viable big league starter.

AA: Franklin Perez, 20, Top prospect in Verlander trade. Many have him as Tigers top prospect. Figures to start in AA, possibly AAA this year. Frontline starter.
AA: Beau Burrows, 20. 1st round pick out of HS progressing nicely. Very good in High-A now in AA. Needs a full year in AA, and AAA. See him in 2019 maybe.
AA: Artie Lewicki, 25, Steadily progressing. Probably makes it to AAA in 2018. If he stays consistent could get a chance in the bigs but not hyped.
AA: Tyler Alexander, 23, progressed quickly as a 2nd rd pick in 2015 but has met his match in AA this year. Stock dropped off this season needs another AA year.
AA: Grayson Long, 23, acquired in Upton trade. Big righty with 3 solid pitches who s been missing bats but isnt overwhelming with velocity. High floor. Could start in AAA this year

A: Kyle Funkhouser, 23, dominated FSL in short intro but missed time to injury. Has big upside but cant rush him.
A: Matt Hall, 24, 6th rd lefty having a big year in Lakeland, ready to go up a level.
A: Sandy Baez, 23, Has had some big strikeout games and is on the 40 man roster. May be a guy to watch with a fastball consistently mid 90s and hits 99.
A: Spencer Turnbull, 24, 2nd rounder who s a little behind bc of injuries. Ground ball pitcher.
A: Austin Sodders, 22, lefty doing very well in A ball. May have a chance out of the pen down the road.
A: Gregory Soto, 22, boom or bust lefty with control issues.
A: Alfred Gutierrez, 22, standing out at West Michigan.
A: Matt Manning, 19, last years 1st rounder has big upside but is a project, just got called up to Grand Rapids
Rookie: Alex Faedo, 21 being projected as one of tigers better recent picks, taking the summer off after CWS run. Could move quick.

Last edited by The Legend on March 4th, 2018, 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

August 6th, 2017, 12:19 am
Veteran NFL Head Coach

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Post Re: Tigers rebuild?
Just looking at the SP situation - the Tigers do have some pieces but the best front line rotation prospects are mostly in the lower levels and have a ways to go.

There will be attrition which makes you wonder about the strategy Al Avila and ownership are employing. It looks like they have enough prospects where they could ve maybe landed someone like Sonny Gray and gotten into contention more quickly and kept the team more stable than it will be waiting on prospects to arrive

On the other hand it sounds like there are money issues and current ownership not willing to keep running with this level of operating costs. Sanchez' deal will fall off and so will Pelfrey's so that helps but they just handed Zimmerman maybe the worst contract in team history one offseason ago. Gotta wonder how they figured they werent willing to keep Scherzer but turned around and paid more combined for Zimmerman and Pelfrey but got peanuts back as far as performance goes. Pretty disappointing how that all turned out.

Anyway, its hard to see the guys at A and AA making it up and being solid during Verlander s current contract so its really more of a 3-4 year plan with developing those guys and building around Fulmer. Buck Farmer, Drew Verhagen and cheap veteran retreads may get quite a few chances the next couple of seasons. If the Tigers are going to win next season, Norris and Boyd are going to have to really progress and consistently pitch deeper into games and one of them probably Norris has to start becoming the No2-3 starter he s supposed to be. Possibly Funkhouser or Faedo could move up quickly but I think thats less likely.

August 6th, 2017, 12:47 am
Martha Firestone Ford
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Joined: May 7th, 2005, 3:25 pm
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Post Re: Tigers rebuild?
Really nice run down of the pitching.

I see the Tigers just put Ian Kinsler on revocable waivers today. I wonder if some team has offered a trade for him.

IMO, the single biggest thing the Tigers need to do this off season: GET MIGGY's MOM AND SIBLINGS OUT OF VENEZUELA!!!

Muggy has been warned that if he goes back to Venezuela, he will be killed. He has also been having to pay protection money so that his mom won't be kidnapped or killed.
He is not alone. Other Venezuelan players are going through it too.
And almost all of them are having the worst seasons of their careers.

August 9th, 2017, 11:35 pm
Martha Firestone Ford
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Post Re: Tigers rebuild?
Tigers traded Justin Upton and Justin Verlander in separate deals yesterday.

Traded Upton to to the Angels earlier in the day. I was glad to see his contract go.

Verlander, on the other hand, I shed a tear or two for when I awoke this morning to the news that his trade came as a buzzer beater. I didn't want you o see him go.

I am left wondering if Dumbrowski would have gotten more for all three Justins and JD than Avila did? Somehow, even though I didn't like some of his trades, I think Dumbrowski would have gotten more in return. The trade deadline is a time when GM's from contending teams lose their sanity. And Dumbrowski had a knack for getting that extra prospect or that higher ceiling prospect. On the flip side, he gave away too much at the deadline when it came to him losing his sanity.

September 1st, 2017, 7:47 am
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Post Re: Tigers rebuild?
Current organization depth chart:

Majors - SP Fulmer RHP 25yo, SP Zimmerman RHP 32, SP Boyd LHP 27, SP Liriano LHP 34, SP Carpenter LHP 28

Zimmerman has had somewhat of a bounceback season and could be a No 4-5 on a good team probably but needs to be healthy. Possibly could be trade bait next year but Tigers would have eat big part of the $50m they owe him. Fulmer still looks like a good pitcher but the numbers arent where they need to be right now to get a big return. If he has a big finish he could be moved in the offseason. He could be a frontline starter on a good team ie No 2-3. Boyd has actually been pretty good and has value, one of the bright spots. Liriano s contract will be up, doubt he s back but if he is just filling a spot to get them through another down year as 2019 will be. Carpenter is just a fill in to finish the season, maybe lands a pen spot next year of bounces around the league in similar situations.

Injured - Norris LHP 25 yo - odd couple of years bw cancer and hip injury. Set to make some rehab appearances soon. Untapped potential.
Injured - Grayson Long RHP 24 - not a high ceiling prospect but maybe a low floor one with a shot to be a back end starter. Only pitched one game in Tigers system since arriving in Upton trade. Probably tries AA again in 2019.

AAA - Tyler Alexander LHP 24, Jacob Turner RHP 27, Artie Lewicki RHP 26, Matt Hall LHP 25, Kyle Funkhouser RHP 24

Alexander is a former 2nd rd pick who was climbing fast and has leveled off. Too early to write off its an important year at Toledo for him next year. The Tigers would love to have former 1st rd pick Turner make leap from 4A pitcher to fill a spot in the rotation in 2019 and flip him with little investment, so far good results in the minors and will get another audition with the Tigers in September. Lewicki is more of a long relief prospect who could get a spot start here or there. Funkhouser is shut down w a foot injury and is a talent but needs to put together a good year in the minors in 2019. Hall had been moved to the bullpen but the Mudhens ran out of arms and needed him to start and he s been great for them. He s been a bright spot throughout his minor league career though it seems they may feel his future is in the pen and he ll have to prove otherwise in limited chances.

AA - Beau Burrows RHP 21, Alex Faedo RHP 22, Spencer Turnbull RHP 25, AJ Ladwig RHP 25, Sandy Baez RHP 24

Burrows and Faedo are good prospects with plus potential. Burrows is viewed as a potential front line pitcher who was turned the corner with his feel for pitching. Faedo might be more of a middle of the rotation 3-4 and while older hasnt been in pro ball as long. Both may be in AA again to start next season but if they do well could taste Detroit late 2019 and could be mixing in to the Tigers rotation in 2020. Turnbull can miss bats and could taste the bigs but probably a future reliever unless something changes soon. Ladwig is organizational depth with good size who bombed in Toledo this year but has pitched really well for Erie. Baez has glowing scouting reviews on his arm but not much production. Could be running out of time and has been getting looks in the bullpen now.

A - Casey Mize RHP 21, Franklin Perez RHP 20, Matt Manning RHP 20, Anthony Castro RHP 23, Gregory Soto LHP 23, Austin Sodders LHP 23

Mize isnt Verlander but they took him No 1 overall for a reason and expect him to be at the front of the rotation with Burrows. Perez had a lost year but was the top prospect before Mize was picked and likely passed by Burrows this year but if these were just isolated injuries his arm should be good to go for 2019. Manning is really a high ceiling prospect who was considered a project but has size and is starting to show some great results and is improving his control which isnt unusual to have some issues with considering his 6'6" and youth. Soto was on a lot of Tigers prospects list but another w a good arm who doesnt know where its going. Sodders has been out since the late spring but has had some promising results when healthy and is a lefty who throws low 90s with command so he could make it to the bigs in some capacity. Castro has had good results in Lakeland and throws in the mid 90s with an ERA 2.87 so far this season. He ll continue to get chances to start but is projected by scouts as a reliever.

Low A - Elvin Rodriguez RHP 20

The player to be named in Upton trade. Rodriguez has impressed with good command and at 6'3 160 may be projectable if they can add some good weight to that frame.

Notable SP in 2018 Draft - Hugh Smith RHP 20 yo project 6'10" tall, Adam Wolf 6'6" 21 yo LHP

Dream future rotation if it goes right:
No 1. Casey Mize RHP
No 2. Michael Fulmer RHP
No 3. Matt Manning RHP or Beau Burrows RHP
No 4. Franklin Perez RHP or Alex Faedo RHP
No 5. Daniel Norris LHP or Matt Boyd LHP

Likely 2019 rotation - Zimmerman, Fulmer, Boyd and 1 FA signee similar to Fiers or Liriano and maybe someone like Turner that wins a spring training battle although the Tigers will give Norris every chance to make the rotation.

Prediction: While the Tigers have a lot of solid and even elite arms in the pipeline they dont have much on the positon side of things. To get this rebuild going with some semblance of balance Al Avila will probably trade Boyd during this offseason figuring that his value is maxed out and then trade Fulmer early or mid next year as he rebuilds his value - in exchange for relatively advanced position players. Tigers probably a year away from being able to trade Zimmerman and by that point they may just keep him around as a leader for some of the young pitchers. Between Mize, Burrows and Manning it looks like the Tigers should end up with a nice front of the rotation and have enough depth with some of the others that the back end could be filled from within with a chance to free up money to add premium FA position players like they ve done in past years.

August 26th, 2018, 1:39 am
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Post Re: Tigers rebuild?
Tigers relievers

CP Shane Greene RHP 29, RHP Joe Jimenez 23, Victor Alcantara 25, Louis Coleman RHP 32, Buck Farmer RHP 27, Daniel Stumpf LHP 27, Drew VerHagen RHP 27, Alex Wilson RHP 31, Blaine Hardy LHP 31

Not a lot of trade value here. Greene has some circulatory issues that make Detroit not the ideal place for him bc those issues are more pronounced in colder weather. Jimenez and Alcantara have some promise but I dont think either is a closer on a good team. Wilson isnt a classic hard thrower out of the pen but gets the job done and Blaine Hardy has been very good in spot starter, long relief or lefty specialist role. Farmer and VerHagen have there moments but mostly inconsistent.

Johnny Barbato RHP 26 - Sinkerball pitcher on the Tigers 40 man likely comes up in September.
Paul Voelker RHP 26 - pitching well throughout the minors in middle/late relief but history of drug suspension could be held against him.
Zac Reininger RHP 25 - fastball slider pitcher who s great in the minors but batted around badly in the majors. Throws 96mph.
Zac Houston RHP 23 - The most dominant reliever they have in the minors but not on the 40 man roster. 250 pounds, 95-97mph w deception.

Drew Carlton, RHP 22 - good command and control but in the low 90s, so far has great results at A and AA
John Schreiber, RHP 24 - side armer who is handling closer duties in Erie.
Trent Skutnik, LHP 25 - lefty making steady climb through the system.
Mark Ecker, RHP 23 - college closer with a good fastball and command but the results arent overwhelming at this point.

Eduardo Jimenez, RHP 23 - power righty working on his command
Burris Warner, RHP 22 - no information but having a good year in Lakeland.

Really hard to project anything here as info on minor league relievers is limited. If the Tigers can add Houston to the 40 man roster he d be the one to watch from the minors. Schreiber will also probably make the big leagues at some point also. Reininger and Barbato have some promise but have been knocked around badly in the bigs. Most of the help for the future Tigers bullpens likely comes from minor league starters that end up being converted.

August 26th, 2018, 3:01 am
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