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 Outback Bowl. 
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Veteran NFL Head Coach

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
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Post Re: Outback Bowl.
they got smoked but i dont see why he should be fired. probably more likely to be two steps back than a step forward for them.


November 27th, 2018, 11:51 pm
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QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
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Post Re: Outback Bowl.
I'm not saying fire him now. Give him one more year.

But after 5 years, you can't win the B10? You don't deserve to be coaching Michigan football.


November 28th, 2018, 1:26 am
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Post Re: Outback Bowl.
Blueskies wrote:
I'm not saying fire him now. Give him one more year.

But after 5 years, you can't win the B10? You don't deserve to be coaching Michigan football.


Going into next season Michigan hasn't won the B10 in 15 years when it split the title with Iowa. OSU has won 7 times since then, MSU, Penn State and Wisconsin 3 times each since then.

Michigan fans are judging the team on days gone by. Harbaugh has brought Michigan back up to respectability with a chance to compete each year based on the recruits he is able to bring in. I don't think he is a great game day coach, but if you fire him you have a chance to slip backwards to the Rich Rod / Hoke days which would be a disaster.

Michigan lost two games this year to two teams competing for the BCS playoffs, that is a very solid season. Be careful what you wish for.

Problem for UofM has been the lack of QB development, something we thought Harbaugh would be very good at. This year a college transfer improved the position greatly. If Michigan is going to come all the way back, the coach has to develop a QB to build around for a few years.

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November 29th, 2018, 10:45 am
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QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
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Post Re: Outback Bowl.
Rich Rod had great recruiting classes despite sourcing completely different sorts of players.

Hoke had great recruiting classes despite having no resume as an effective head coach.

Players will come to Michigan regardless of the coach. They come because of the brand, the big house, and the alumni both in the NFL and those willing to donate.

But a great brand will only last for so long. People will forgive a bad product for a while, but eventually it ends.

Will the people who graduated from Michigan in the last 10 years want to donate when they have money 10, 20, 30 years from now? Will fans still show up to the big house if the team is only mediocre? How much longer will non-Michigan alums buy overpriced Nike gear with the Block M if the school is only a second-rate within the B10?

Like I said, I had very high hopes for Jim Harbaugh. His resume was great and he was given a lot of leeway. Everyone was in alignment. But after 5 years, if you can't get it done, then you're obviously not the guy for the job. You're right -- if you get rid of him, you could go back to winning 4/5/6 games and being a joke. But I'd rather take the risk and try than settle for perpetual mediocrity. If you take a risk, you might have a chance at bringing Michigan back. If you settle for Iowa-status, the destruction of Michigan football is guaranteed. Maybe it limps along for another 10, 15 years, but eventually it will end.


December 2nd, 2018, 9:35 pm
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Post Re: Outback Bowl.
Quote:
Rich Rod had great recruiting classes despite sourcing completely different sorts of players.


Didnt really see the big picture and wasnt a good fit for the university or its tradition and values. Equal blame to whoever hired him. Could ve waited a week and hired Les Miles.

Quote:
Hoke had great recruiting classes despite having no resume as an effective head coach.


Resume was about equal to what Bo Schembechler s was before Bo got hired. Great fit but isnt a great coach though and was hamstrung by a bigger personality causing all sorts of other problems in Dave Brandon.

Quote:
Players will come to Michigan regardless of the coach. They come because of the brand, the big house, and the alumni both in the NFL and those willing to donate.


It was dealt a major blow by Rich Rod, he abandoned reliable pipelines and had bad relationships with high school coaches he needed to depend on for players. Big difference between his disinterest on the recruiting trail and at camps compared to even Hoke, let alone Harbaugh.

Quote:
But a great brand will only last for so long. People will forgive a bad product for a while, but eventually it ends.


Harbaugh has been nothing but great for the brand. Even Paul Finebaum jumped on the bandwagon at times this year.

Quote:
Will the people who graduated from Michigan in the last 10 years want to donate when they have money 10, 20, 30 years from now? Will fans still show up to the big house if the team is only mediocre? How much longer will non-Michigan alums buy overpriced Nike gear with the Block M if the school is only a second-rate within the B10?


I think your expectations are unrealistic, when all of the games they play are meaningful and they go into the final week of the season with a realistic shot at getting into the playoff 2/4 years after being where they ve been with Rich Rod and Hoke - it is a major accomplishment. MSU, Penn State, Iowa, Wisconsin these are all better than mediocre football programs and Harbaugh has passed them. Fans arent disappearing, donations arent stopping.

In 13 years, Carr had legitimate national championship hopes down to the last week of the regular season in 2/13 seasons. Harbaugh is at 2/4. UM football is currently in one of its peaks and much more likely to get worse without Harbaugh than better without him.

Quote:
Like I said, I had very high hopes for Jim Harbaugh. His resume was great and he was given a lot of leeway. Everyone was in alignment. But after 5 years, if you can't get it done, then you're obviously not the guy for the job. You're right -- if you get rid of him, you could go back to winning 4/5/6 games and being a joke. But I'd rather take the risk and try than settle for perpetual mediocrity. If you take a risk, you might have a chance at bringing Michigan back. If you settle for Iowa-status, the destruction of Michigan football is guaranteed. Maybe it limps along for another 10, 15 years, but eventually it will end.


I have never thought he is a very good gameday coach and I continue to believe that to be the case and not sure it has improved. Still he s a great icon of the namebrand of Michigan football and football will remain at a top 10 level as long as he s around. They ll always be able to attract coordinators and assistants of there choosing. Again I disagree with what you are calling mediocrity, he has done better here than he did at Stanford which everyone thinks was such a great accomplishment. Also confused about what would be satisfactory accomplishment for you. If Harbaugh beat Ohio State in 2018 or 2016 and makes the semifinal playoff - would you be satisfied with Harbaugh as head coach? Is it true that one less loss in 4 years would be enough for your opinion to sway from "he s a great coach for UM" to "he should be fired"?

The big problem is while Rich Rod and Hoke were flopping, Ohio State was able to recharge and basically create an SEC north school. Now with Meyer stepping down, Harbaugh has a big opportunity to finally pull the program to the top of the Big Ten. I agree with your idea that this is the time for it to happen but Harbaugh has done enough compared to the history of the program that the ultimatums just dont make sense. He didnt take over Saban's Alabama or even Meyer's OSU but rather something far worse. The ultimatums just make people seem seem unappreciative of how difficult the job is - the brand/helmet doesnt win by itself or else Rich Rod and Hoke would still be around. This program was great but never as strong as people make it out to be. Harbaugh has UM football pretty much at as high of a level as its been since 1950. Carr won a championship and had the team near championship level one other time in 2006. But the gold standard is Schembechler and Bo never even coached a game where if he won they would be champions (close in '77 Rose Bowl but #1 Pitt won earlier in the day - UM lost to USC anyway). Bo had a handful of seasons like Harbaugh s 2016 and 2018 where UM was in contention right up until the last week of the regular season, losing to Ohio State in 1970, 1972, 73 (tie), 1974 and 1975. Look familiar?


January 4th, 2019, 7:28 pm
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QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
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Post Re: Outback Bowl.
With all due respect, what are you talking about? OSU just won their biggest victory in the history of the rivalry and then Michigan got badly spanked in their bowl game and you call that being close to winning the NCG???? What planet are you on? The fact that they were in the hunt going into the last couple weeks of the season doesn't matter when the team eventually gets exposed for what it is.

Both Carr and Bo won the Big 10 and beat OSU around 50% of the time. They are both way better coaches than Harbaugh at this point. It's not even close. Harbaugh had one Michigan team finish ranked 10, and another 15. The other two didn't break the top 25. Every single one of Bo's teams ranked in the top 20 except 1, and I think something like half his teams were in the top 10. Only one of Lloyd's teams didn't finish in the top 20, and something like 5 or 6 finished in the top 10, plus of course the NCG.

One or two games short of making the playoff isn't an argument. CFB is always about 1 or 2 games a season. They only play a dozen regular season games and half or more are against patsy teams.

Harbaugh has done literally nothing since he's been here except beat a declining Michigan State and generate a bunch of press. Seriously how on earth can you say this is the high point of Michigan football since Fritz Crisler? What games are you watching?

I understand winning the B10 is harder now then it was 15, 20, 30 years ago, but they haven't even made a conference title game. Winning the conference once in 5 years is not unreasonable when you're ****ing Michigan and you're one of the highest paid coaches in the sport. Put down the koolaid.


January 8th, 2019, 12:17 am
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Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
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Post Re: Outback Bowl.
There s no Kool Aid, you are overrating the historical strength of the program. What Harbaugh has produced is what Michigan football has basically been for the past 60 years. I’m not interested in cheating to get to the next level and not interested in going backwards with lesser coaches. Would much rather keep the stability, stay patient and wait for Ohio State to make mistakes or get caught in there next scandal while having meaningful chances at making the playoff every other year.


January 8th, 2019, 10:35 pm
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QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
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Post Re: Outback Bowl.
Was Bo as good as Bear Bryant or Nick Saban? No. But he's still considered one of the best coaches in CFB history for a reason. His teams were consistently great -- as I said, he produced a top 10 team basically every other year. To say Habraugh's 4 years here have been greater then that when they just lost 62-39 to OSU...I don't even know what to say. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.


January 9th, 2019, 1:51 am
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Veteran NFL Head Coach

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
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Location: WSU
Post Re: Outback Bowl.
I didn’t say Harbaugh s better but the program is near as strong now as it was then. I don’t know who you would find to be a better fit as a head coach for UM football then Harbaugh. Remember there s tradition and values and a lot of alumni with money that want to see it done a certain way. It’s not the blank slate someone like Sweeney got at Clemson to do it however they wanted. Rich Rod had a great resume but just didn’t fit for many of the reasons above.

I don’t care about the final score of the game, they had a major gaffe bw Thomas dumb kick return move turning a scoring drive into a blocked punt and the defense basically gave up after that and they got the score run up on them. Every time Bo s teams played Ohio state with a chance to basically play into a national championship game they lost. Not sure Bo s teams were worlds better or even significantly different and with the way scholarship number were there were bigger advantages in that day to having a name program like Michigan. Should have been easier for Bo then it is for Harbaugh and he got 20 years to try.


January 9th, 2019, 8:34 pm
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QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
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Post Re: Outback Bowl.
The scholarships angle is overstated. They ended unlimited scholarships in 1973. It went from 105 in 73' to 95 in 78' to 85 in 92'. Most of Bo's career, he had like 10-15% more scholarships. But here's the thing: So did all the other big schools. It's not like Michigan had an advantage over Wisconsin or Michigan State because they couldn't afford to offer 10 more scholarships.

Carr won. Dantonio has won. Seemingly no matter who coaches OSU, they win. Notre Dame has been elite at times in recent years. Harbaugh has absolutely underperformed by any reasonable measure.

Michigan's culture is first about doing it right, and second about winning. Harbaugh hasn't won anything since he's been here.


January 16th, 2019, 3:36 am
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Veteran NFL Head Coach

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
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Location: WSU
Post Re: Outback Bowl.
I agree he hasnt won but he also hasnt dropped a series of deuces in the bed, like his predecessors. He s got them on the cusp and I think it would be a really bad time to change coaches now as Ohio State might slip down a rung or two in the next couple years with an inexperienced coach stepping in.


January 16th, 2019, 7:16 pm
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