View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently September 2nd, 2014, 10:12 am



Reply to topic  [ 55 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 School Shooting 
Author Message
QB Coach

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 8:33 pm
Posts: 3222
Post 
This is another wakeup call.

I'm likely the only student on this forum... I go to a diverse school in a upper-class area, but there are gangs and such. I've seen kids literally walk into school with guns and knives... it freaks me out. There is no enforcement, no metal detectors, no searches, nothing. It frightens me even the possibility of this happening in my school. There has already been a shooting this year at my school... a kid went out at lunch to his house and shot someone... and this just makes me more terrified every time I step in school even thinking of the possibility of this happening.

I love how Moore portrayed America in Bowling for Columbine. I've read both Stupid White Men and Dude, Where's my Country. The simple fact is, because we are born with so much freedom, someone can pull of a stunt like this so easily. There is just too much trust that people won't do the wrong thing, maybe that's just my paranoid mind thinking, but we give too much flexibility in the schools. Kids break too many rules too often and don't get caught for it. I walk through around 20 underage smokers in the parking lot to class everyday, but no counselor is out there telling them not to do anything. I see kids trashing others cars, littering all over the parking lot, but we don't have any sort of security, no cameras at all.

I just wish as a student that there would be a way to safely ensure that nothing like this could happen in my school. When it gets to the point that kids are even thinking of this possibility, then there is a problem, even if there is no evidence that anyone would ever pull a stunt like this. Going to an educational facility shouldn't be dangerous, you shouldn't think "Does that kid have any weapons on him" walking in everyday. I sympathize for some kids who go to schools in areas of domestic violence, I can only imagine what happens at those schools. Columbine wasn't your below average school, it was a wealthy community, just like my school. If it can happen there, it can happen anywhere.


March 23rd, 2005, 12:47 am
Profile WWW
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9850
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post 
There is no magical cure for what ails the society of this country. Racism (and it doesn't go just one way), economic depression, a VERY poor judicial system, pressures at work and school (peer pressure), and very bad role models for kids.
A statement was made that violence begets violence. But the question was asked 'what's different today?'. Physical discipline was a WIDELY accepted form of punishment years ago. We didn't have kids shooting their classmates, we didn't have girls getting raped on the elementary school bus, and things were much better for kids in school socially. But since foolish child psychologists starting dictating that spanking was a bad thing, kids have gotten worse and worse. Worse yet, most of these child psychologists don't have children of their own. Until you have kids you just can't make assumptions on what the best way of taking care of them is. And each child is different and needs to be handled on a singular basis. I am the youngest of three, my parents raised the three of us exactly the same way, yet my brother was constantly in trouble while my sister and I were not. It's a matter of individualism. Just because one child responds to timeouts doesn't mean all of them will. I can tell you first hand they don't. And the longer a parent puts off spanking that child, or finding another form of discipline, the more likely that child becomes incorrigible.
I teach kids at a martial arts school. One of the kids I teach has a mother who is a child psychologist. She won't attend our classes that her son is in because she thinks we are 'drill sargeants who seek to quell a childs natural energy level and control them'. Raising a child is about control. Yet, this woman can't understand why her boy is always getting into trouble at his elementary school and our school for misbehaving. He is the worst behaved student we have. He has NEVER been spanked (though he desperately needs it), he has been examined by doctors and other psychologists that agree he has no physical issues nor psychological issues (ie: no chemical imbalances, no ADD). Problem is he has been allowed to do as he pleases for too long and now he can't be controlled. Once the horse is out of the corral and can run free, you won't be able to keep him calm in the stable. And this boy is the product of two parents that are very involved in his life.
There isn't a fine line between child abuse and spanking, there is a wide, yawning canyon. If you want examples of child abuse, go to Children's Hospital and see the kids who have been beaten for wetting in their diapers, whipped with ropes or electrical cords, or worse. Yet, our judicial system will give these kids back to parents after they've completed some BS anger management seminar and some token time in jail. These kids are being put back into violence by the system, and often end up getting killed. But no one is held accountable but the parents. THAT'S a travesty.
Which leads me to the root cause: accountability. Our judicial system, particularly in the last few years, has taught people around the world one basic creedo; in the United States it is always someone else's fault. And if you have enough money, chances are it's not your fault either. Blame your parents Roseanne, blame a phanton killer OJ, blame anybody else but yourself. The first thing a defense lawyer will tell their client is to not admit to anything. And then these lawyers will find the lamest excuse to get their clients cleared of the charges. So naturally our youth are learning that even when you are basically proven guilty, you just need to convince one juror that there is 'reasonable doubt' and you have a chance of getting away with it. It happens over and over. I once heard a judge say that 'he would rather see 10 guilty people set free than have one innocent person put in jail'. I think that outlook is hurting all of us in this country, because of the example it is setting. And then, when you have someone like Scott Peterson found guilty of killing his wife and unborn child and sentenced to death, it will be 20 years before the sentence is carried out. Whether you believe in the death penalty or not, this is a joke. Endless appeals has to stop. It eats up taxpayer money and sends the wrong message. People steal billions of dollars from countless others and they are given a hand slap in comparison. In America the lesson is being taught that crime DOES pay.
To fix the social problems with this country it has to begin with the judicial system and at home. Parents do have to become more involved in their childrens lives, they do have to be a parent first and a friend second. They must also enforce their rules with very strict boundaries on all their children, and not show favoritism. The rules must be clear and not subject to interpretation.
The judicial system needs to overhaul the appeals process and limit the number of appeals a person gets. If a person is found guilty of a violent crime for a third time in their life they should be put away for life without possibility of parole or put to death in the case of capital murder.
And before any of you says that capital punishment makes us no better than the criminal, might I remind you that the killers victim was innocent, our target is not a victim, and is not innocent. If you have cancer you seek to destroy it, or else it will kill other innocent cells around it, right? This is no different. This is the permanent removal of a social deviant who has shown the willingness to take human life without regard, no different than how cancer kills healthy cells without regard.
And if you still think that a killer should live the rest of their life in prison, you pay for it.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


March 23rd, 2005, 2:33 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:34 pm
Posts: 10288
Location: Sycamore, IL
Post 
Mike, you teach martial arts? What do you teach? I study Northern Shaolin Kung Fu, Taijiquan, and Gigong along with some other aspects such as Iron Palm, etc. It's great stuff.


March 23rd, 2005, 2:42 pm
Profile
Red Shirt Freshman

Joined: March 10th, 2005, 10:02 am
Posts: 507
Location: Michigan
Post 
m2karateman wrote:
But the question was asked 'what's different today?'.


Had to throw this in.

Another reason for our social decay is the huge push to get God out of our country. Of course this will open up another hot debate.

?We have staked the whole future of American civilization not upon the power of the government, but far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.? - James Madison, the Chief Architect of our Constitution, from The Myth of Separation, by David Baron


If people don't think they are accountable for their actions, they'll do anything. Thinking of themselves only.


March 23rd, 2005, 3:07 pm
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 1:25 am
Posts: 4918
Location: Hills of Auburn
Post 
Oh great...everyone is going to be able to kick my arse!

Mike you make great points in your novel. A couple things though...psychology isn't wrong about things but you have to know which one to ask. There are different schools of pscyh just like you can either study Crane Style or the Tiger Claw (WAHTA!!!!) Joking aside I had one PSY professor say, "I used to be a child psychologist...until I realized it was their parents who needed the therapy!".

Spanking is one form of "Behavior Modification" and it can be effective if done in a very limited and very consistent manner. I personally do not use it but I am not one to argue vs it. I do believe one should exhaust other methods of behavior changing parenting before going there. But if little Timmy will not respond to other punishments at all and continues to run into the street than what will be more damaging to lil Timmy? Probably that semi cruising down the street (Unless we are talking about Kung Fu Mike giving the spanking :shock: ).

In our family though we avoid it...I know personally just like you and I agree all kids are different...many kids who are passive agressive as a child spanking has little to no real effect on.

So far our 9 year old daughter and 5 year old son have not been spanked. My son comes exceedlingly close at times but both get rave reviews from their teachers about their behavior outside of the house. We also have 2 younger ones as well but my point is more about behavior outside the home and I have yet to have occasion to spank my 7month yr old yet :lol:

In regards to my daughter. She is getting ever too close for my liking to being a teenager and I dread it. But we have established a great relationship where she feels absolutely secure in talking with us about things on her mind. Since very early in school she felt comfortable asking us about "naughty" words and we were always completely honest with them yet she knows that they are totally not acceptable she at least understands why. Her questions of late have grown increasingly mature and we are a frank as appropriately possible. In this way the "big talk" will be much more natural for us because we have an established open ended ability to talk. She hears things at school and feels free to run it by us and she does often.

To me that is the key...we have her trust and she knows that she will get facts from us instead of rumors and misunderstanding from kids at school.

Anyways...parenting is pretty damn complicated and no one has all the answers. But I think if you give them guidelines and use a healthy amount of discipline and reward in parenting them and develop a good relationship with them you have a much better chance of not having kids that implode and do such heinous acts.

_________________
Regards, Alpha|Lionbacker.com \(^o^)/
"I date this girl for two years and then the nagging starts: I wanna know your name..." - Mike Binder


March 23rd, 2005, 3:12 pm
Profile WWW
Pop Warner Vet
User avatar

Joined: February 10th, 2005, 3:08 pm
Posts: 125
Location: 8 Mile
Post 
There are millions of kids with good and bad parents. It happens not very often but the news picks it up and runs with it and makes these kids stars. On a rare occasion you have someone messed up being like Jeff Dalmer or Charlie Mason. They are pure oddities that are going to do some messed up crazy crap no matter what. I doubt that this is because some kid didnt eat there greens. There are shooting and killings in Detroit every single day and yeah we hear it locally but not like that kid on the reservation or the kids at Columbine. I mean what was so news worthy about Scott Peterson? That crap happens all the time. But he was a good looking white guy in Cali.

And in regards to back in the day, crap like this probably happened all the time. They also made black people drink out of different drinking fountains and what not. Oh boy, the good old days lol

_________________
Em1n3m
"ain't nobody iller than me"


March 23rd, 2005, 3:46 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9850
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post 
PT Bruiser wrote:
Had to throw this in.

Another reason for our social decay is the huge push to get God out of our country. Of course this will open up another hot debate.

?We have staked the whole future of American civilization not upon the power of the government, but far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.? - James Madison, the Chief Architect of our Constitution, from The Myth of Separation, by David Baron


If people don't think they are accountable for their actions, they'll do anything. Thinking of themselves only.


I couldn't agree more. The absence of accountability to a higher power is just as much to blame as accountability to oneself, because it is one in the same. When parents expect their children to own up to something being broken in the house, but then do whatever they can to protect those children when they are accused of something outside the house sends a mixed message. I have heard from a teacher about one mother who showed up at Parent-Teacher Conferences with a lawyer in tow because several of her childs teachers gave deragatory comments about her behavior in class. Examples of parents like this are what is destroying accountability and self government in our children.

theAlphaMale wrote:
...psychology isn't wrong about things but you have to know which one to ask.

I know this is the case, psychology has many different schools of thought. My wife happens to have studied psychology in college and I have read some of her books. What I was alluding to is the fact that the idea of non-contact parenting became the accepted school of thought. Try giving a timeout to a 13 or 14 year old. It doesn't work, because they aren't truly being punished. And by that time it's too late to spank them.

My point is this: If the American Judicial system wants to control the way we punish our children for their misdeeds, then why won't they take responsibility when those children start committing 'adult' crimes? Instead, they choose to hold the parents responsible and that isn't fair. It would be like handcuffing a swimmer and telling them to swim the English Channel and if you mess up, you die because it's your fault for not escaping the cuffs. Let parents raise their children as they see fit, punish the parents ONLY if they truly abuse the child, and then make sure they lose all parental rights to their children, ALL OF THEM.
And if parents want to blindly defend their child who has committed a violent crime, or those parents somehow obstruct justice in the process, put them all on trial for that crime. Some convictions in that regard will make other parents think twice before making the claim that 'he was a good boy....he didn't do anything wrong'.
There was an occasion of that some years ago in Grosse Pointe when some teenage boy got behind the wheel of an SUV while intoxicated and ended up killing three of his friends and critically injuring another. He survived and the coward ran away from the crash scene and went home. His mother and father refused to let police take him into custody for at least six hours, all the while so he could get the alcohol out of his system. These parents should have been put on trial right next to him for vehicular homocide, and had charges of obstruction and harboring thrown in to the mix.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


March 23rd, 2005, 6:14 pm
Profile
Fired Head Coach (0-16 record)
User avatar

Joined: January 6th, 2005, 10:54 am
Posts: 2274
Location: South Quad- Ann Arbor
Post 
Kids like me are taught by society that it is more important to win or to be successful than to follow your conscience and take the high road. It doesn't matter if you cheated on half your assignments if you still get an A. If you get away with something, it is okay, no matter how immoral or unethical it is. In reading everyone's posts, I think an overriding theme is a lack of personal responsibilty. I think that is exactly what is wrong with people. It is never my fault, its yours or my enviroment's. People have become so obsesed with getting away with stuff. Excuses Excuses Excuses.

_________________
"If he isn't the best football player, the best runner, that the Lord has ever made, then the Lord has yet to make one." Wayne Fontes on Barry.
Image


March 23rd, 2005, 9:37 pm
Profile WWW
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:34 pm
Posts: 10288
Location: Sycamore, IL
Post 
But don't morals go along with what everyone's been saying? I would tend to lump that in with discipline to an extent. I understand what you're saying though, and I whole heartedly agree.


March 23rd, 2005, 9:40 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9850
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post 
bsand2053 wrote:
Kids like me are taught by society that it is more important to win or to be successful than to follow your conscience and take the high road. It doesn't matter if you cheated on half your assignments if you still get an A. If you get away with something, it is okay, no matter how immoral or unethical it is. In reading everyone's posts, I think an overriding theme is a lack of personal responsibilty. I think that is exactly what is wrong with people. It is never my fault, its yours or my enviroment's. People have become so obsesed with getting away with stuff. Excuses Excuses Excuses.


conversion02 wrote:
But don't morals go along with what everyone's been saying? I would tend to lump that in with discipline to an extent. I understand what you're saying though, and I whole heartedly agree.


Both of you have summed up the issue pretty well. Kudos to both.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


March 23rd, 2005, 10:13 pm
Profile
Fired Head Coach (0-16 record)
User avatar

Joined: January 6th, 2005, 10:54 am
Posts: 2274
Location: South Quad- Ann Arbor
Post 
Grazie Mike,

I have another thought. Two years ago in GR, some kids had been playing Grand Theft Auto and decided to play it for real. They messed some people up pretty bad. They ended up making a Law and Order SVU episode about it, and the defense aruged that it was the video game's fault. Of course, they lost, and personal responsibliity won. Blaming a video game for assult doesn't make any sense. But anyway, I could't help but see the other side on that issue. There is no way that it is an excuse, but these games are all part of a desenseitivation(sp) to violence in our culture. My parents never let me have video games, and I believe I am all the better for it. Do you fellows think that these games are bad for the kids of America? Some of you are parents, do you let your kids play these things?

_________________
"If he isn't the best football player, the best runner, that the Lord has ever made, then the Lord has yet to make one." Wayne Fontes on Barry.
Image


March 23rd, 2005, 10:34 pm
Profile WWW
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:34 pm
Posts: 10288
Location: Sycamore, IL
Post 
I've played enough videogames for a half dozen kids; the mortal combats, GTAs, Need for Speeds, etc... I don't think they're bad at all...IF the kid knows the game is fake. One way or another, kids will try whatever crap they see, whether it be in videogames, tv, movies... ESPECIALLY WRESTLING!! What's the deal with "pro" wrestling and kids imitating this in backyard wrestling? That is one game I've seen people mimick and get seriously hurt.

I am not a parent (only 21) but my sister has 3 kids and I usually do something with them almost every day and I let them play videogames and whatnot. They think stuff is funny, but they know better than to go out and try whatever it is they see.


March 23rd, 2005, 10:46 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9850
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post 
I am harkened back to my youth (more years than I'm willing to admit) and remember watching the Three Stooges (geniuses all of them) beating the daylights out of each other with hammers, saws, themselves........good times. And even though there were times when I felt he desperately deserved it, I never busted my older brother in the head with a hand tool.

Kids have been exposed to violence for some time now, just not on the level they are today. It's not just video games. It's movies, TV, songs, sports......the whole environment.

I can also remember a case where the band Judas Priest was brought into court for the suicide pact of two teenage boys who carried through with their agreement. It was a ridiculous case that should have been thrown out by the lawyer who the parents brought it to. But the chase for the all mighty dollar breeds idiocy in many. The case eventually went to trial and the case was eventually dropped but it caused others to think of whether the music they were listening to could be held liable for their misgivings. It's all just so ridiculous.

Somewhere along the lines parents have to accept responsibility for their children rather than using TVs, video games and computers as low cost baby sitters and distractions for the kids. Too often I see parents treating their children as inconveniences rather than as gifts to be enjoyed. People like that should have the children taken away from them. Then let's see how they feel when the laughter and pride in having a child is gone away.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


March 23rd, 2005, 10:47 pm
Profile
Peewee Leaguer

Joined: February 9th, 2005, 11:09 am
Posts: 46
Location: Middle of the Mitten
Post 
Was it Bill Cosby or George Carlin that said that you have to have a license to drive a car or have a dog, but any old bunghole can have kids?

One of the keys is making your kids "pay the piper" when they screw up. I have a 58 year old uncle who has been in and out of jail and still has his "mommy" pay his bills for him because she let him get away with everything as a kid. Even when he started to get in trouble with the law, she knew a few people who pulled a few strings for him. Now she is almost 80 and she has to do his housework, yardwork, pay his bills, etc. And she still thinks that her little boy is perfect and he has been a victim his whole life.

_________________
I am 35, and even though during my life the Lions have "bit the dust" more than their opponents have, I am forever a loyal fan. For some strange reason, I still believe that I will see the Lions in the Super Bowl in my lifetime.


March 24th, 2005, 10:59 am
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 1:25 am
Posts: 4918
Location: Hills of Auburn
Post 
tmorgan wrote:
Was it Bill Cosby or George Carlin that said that you have to have a license to drive a car or have a dog, but any old bunghole can have kids?


I know Keanu Reeves "Parenthood" character made that point in a rare moment of clarity when talking about his dad who would flick lit cigarette butts at him. I think he added "butt weeming ahole" instead though. Classic movie.

_________________
Regards, Alpha|Lionbacker.com \(^o^)/
"I date this girl for two years and then the nagging starts: I wanna know your name..." - Mike Binder


March 24th, 2005, 11:37 am
Profile WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 55 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.