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 GAME 6....lets go Pistons!!! 
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DMorgan wrote:
Get the right kind of coach back here, re-sign Ben, get rid of Delk, sign Mike James. Then the pistons will be back to their previous form.


No on James - not worth the coin he wants.

DMorgan wrote:
IMO the biggest question is, who will the next coach be???


You assume they're getting rid of Flip. I doubt they'll dump him after 1 year. The right kind of coach? Who? LB?

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June 4th, 2006, 4:37 pm
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How about replacing Ben Wallace with Kevin Garnett?? With the price Ben Wallace will be asking for this off-season we might as well sign a Kevin Garnett who is almost as good as Ben Wallace on defense and a lot better on the offensive side. The problem though is that he won't be a free agent this offseason and the asking price in a trade for him might be too high for the Detroit Pistons.


June 4th, 2006, 5:39 pm
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adpreston1385 wrote:
How about replacing Ben Wallace with Kevin Garnett?? With the price Ben Wallace will be asking for this off-season we might as well sign a Kevin Garnett who is almost as good as Ben Wallace on defense and a lot better on the offensive side. The problem though is that he won't be a free agent this offseason and the asking price in a trade for him might be too high for the Detroit Pistons.


Isn't KG under contract? He's not a C by any means. He's a skinnier Sheed...he's a PF. I would love to land him, but we'd still need a true C.

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June 4th, 2006, 6:16 pm
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conversion02 wrote:
adpreston1385 wrote:
How about replacing Ben Wallace with Kevin Garnett?? With the price Ben Wallace will be asking for this off-season we might as well sign a Kevin Garnett who is almost as good as Ben Wallace on defense and a lot better on the offensive side. The problem though is that he won't be a free agent this offseason and the asking price in a trade for him might be too high for the Detroit Pistons.


Isn't KG under contract? He's not a C by any means. He's a skinnier Sheed...he's a PF. I would love to land him, but we'd still need a true C.


Well Kevin Garnett is listed at 6'11", while Ben Wallace is only 6'9" so we would actually be getting a height improvement at the center position.


June 5th, 2006, 3:11 am
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conversion02 wrote:
adpreston1385 wrote:
How about replacing Ben Wallace with Kevin Garnett?? With the price Ben Wallace will be asking for this off-season we might as well sign a Kevin Garnett who is almost as good as Ben Wallace on defense and a lot better on the offensive side. The problem though is that he won't be a free agent this offseason and the asking price in a trade for him might be too high for the Detroit Pistons.


Isn't KG under contract? He's not a C by any means. He's a skinnier Sheed...he's a PF. I would love to land him, but we'd still need a true C.


KG is still under contract for three more years and why pull the trigger now when you could have traded 'Sheed and Darko for him last season? KG is one of those players like Barkley who had a great NBA career but gave him no championships.

KG's contract for the next year is insane. It's plus 20 million for the next three years (getting worse each year). Forget that option.

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June 5th, 2006, 4:41 am
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Ok guys, everyone just needs to take a deep breath. I'm as upset as everyone else with the way the Pistons loss, but we need to see the big picture. What is that big picture? Well, a few things.

Flip is not going anywhere, nor should he. He signed a 4 year contract. He deserves more than one season to prove he belongs. We cannot keep firing coaches every 2 seasons. That does not look well on us or Joe. Flip does deserve blame for the way the season was lost, but he only deserves at the most 50% of the blame. He did a great job during the regular season until the last month of the season. He installed some great offensive sets and opened things up for everyone on the team. He didn't do well at the end of the season as far as getting our starters minutes cut back and developing a proper bench rotation for our playoff run.

Flip's issue is that he has a great plan for the regular season but not for the postseason. This was evident when we hired him from Minnesota. It took 7 years just to get out of the 1st round. I think with this experience he will be much better prepared next season to get the team ready for the postseason.

As for Ben Wallace, he will be back as well. I would not offer him more than a 4 year contract. The man keeps himself in tremendous physical shape and should be productive for the entire contract. I understan his offensive limitations, but the man is invaluable on the defensive end, on the boards, and he is our leader. He is the heart of the team. He may be disgruntled at times with his role, but I would rather have a warrior like that than someone who is satisfied with being average. Bottom line, Ben is our heart.

Rasheed is an interesting dilemma, but he stays as well. We do not need to trade him. It is true he disappears at times and can settle for threes rather than be aggressive, but he is a top 15 talent in the game. We have enough leadership on this team to keep him focused. And he is durable. Most players would have been out for a few weeks with the ankle injury that he had, but he gutted his way thru it. The guy is a competitor.

Look for Joe to assess our bench with some free agent signings and at least one trade. I believe Carlos Delfino's days are numbered. He is talented but will not get enough playing time with us. Look for him to be traded for either a draft pick or a player to contribute right away off the bench.

We still have at least 3 more good years with this core of players. After that, Tayshaun and Rip will lead the next group of players. I happen to think our future looks fine.

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June 5th, 2006, 12:16 pm
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Tadone...do you remember Jerry Stackhouse. He took us to the 2nd round virtually alone and when he didn't perform he was dumped faster than you could say...well anything. That was pretty shocking IMO and shows that Joe has no problems making big time changes.

I think there will be at least one major move.

Joe did it with Stack, Rick C., LB, and he will do it again I have no doubt.

The problem with Ben is if you do not resign him you get nothing out of it. BUT...do you sign a 32 year old to a max contract? That is 32% of the salary cap which would be around 17 million...I say that is insane and I read that his agent is the type of guy that squeezes teams for all he can. I don't think you can afford to let Ben go...but we may not be able to afford to sign him either.

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June 5th, 2006, 12:27 pm
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adpreston1385 wrote:
conversion02 wrote:
adpreston1385 wrote:
How about replacing Ben Wallace with Kevin Garnett?? With the price Ben Wallace will be asking for this off-season we might as well sign a Kevin Garnett who is almost as good as Ben Wallace on defense and a lot better on the offensive side. The problem though is that he won't be a free agent this offseason and the asking price in a trade for him might be too high for the Detroit Pistons.


Isn't KG under contract? He's not a C by any means. He's a skinnier Sheed...he's a PF. I would love to land him, but we'd still need a true C.


Well Kevin Garnett is listed at 6'11", while Ben Wallace is only 6'9" so we would actually be getting a height improvement at the center position.


But we'd be losing about 20lbs... and 5-10 points of BMI... Also, Ben Jumps really well... IMO KG only has average ups...


June 5th, 2006, 1:25 pm
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Ben's hops have been slipping. And think about the mileage on the Pistons with all the playoff runs. Lot's of wear and tear that KG has not faced. Just a thought.

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June 5th, 2006, 1:28 pm
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Alpha, I remeber Stackhouse. I remember very clearly. Joe did not dump Stack for performance issues. What he did was trade an aging 2 for an up and coming 2 named Rip Hamilton. Certainly a big trade, but Stack was declining and the Wizards were not utilizing Rip properly. We got younger and got a player as good or better than Stack.

I know Joe is not afraid of making a big move. The Rasheed trade is a better barometer than the Stack trade was. But I honestly don't see the need to unlike make a major move unlike everyone else. This is a core that has went to 4 straight conference championships, won a title and came minutes from another. We set a record for most wins in a regular season. We cannot just blow everything up because we got ousted by Miami. NEWS FLASH: Miami has a pretty good team! So does Cleveland. As good as ours? Miami maybe. Cleveland no. But that is not the point. We just had a bad stretch and couldn't recover. Sure it came at a bad time, but this is still a very good team.

Look for the biggest move we make to be a trade of Delfino. The core will remain intact and Ben will be back.

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June 5th, 2006, 1:43 pm
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TADOne wrote:
Alpha, I remeber Stackhouse. I remember very clearly. Joe did not dump Stack for performance issues. What he did was trade an aging 2 for an up and coming 2 named Rip Hamilton. Certainly a big trade, but Stack was declining and the Wizards were not utilizing Rip properly. We got younger and got a player as good or better than Stack.

I know Joe is not afraid of making a big move. The Rasheed trade is a better barometer than the Stack trade was. But I honestly don't see the need to unlike make a major move unlike everyone else. This is a core that has went to 4 straight conference championships, won a title and came minutes from another. We set a record for most wins in a regular season. We cannot just blow everything up because we got ousted by Miami. NEWS FLASH: Miami has a pretty good team! So does Cleveland. As good as ours? Miami maybe. Cleveland no. But that is not the point. We just had a bad stretch and couldn't recover. Sure it came at a bad time, but this is still a very good team.

Look for the biggest move we make to be a trade of Delfino. The core will remain intact and Ben will be back.


Why is everyone insistent on trading Carlos Delfino??? He has so much potential and I believe if he is developed right he could one day replace Rip Hamilton as the SG (like Manu Ginobli of the Spurs). If the Pistons should trade anyone from the bench it should be Maurice Evans who had a horrible playoff series. Also, Kelvin Cato, Lindsey Hunter, and Tony Delk are all UFA's now so why trade Carlos Delfino when there are already 3 open spots on the roster to fill?


June 5th, 2006, 3:28 pm
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Quote:
Why is everyone insistent on trading Carlos Delfino??? He has so much potential and I believe if he is developed right he could one day replace Rip Hamilton as the SG (like Manu Ginobli of the Spurs). If the Pistons should trade anyone from the bench it should be Maurice Evans who had a horrible playoff series. Also, Kelvin Cato, Lindsey Hunter, and Tony Delk are all UFA's now so why trade Carlos Delfino when there are already 3 open spots on the roster to fill?


Understand Preston, I am not insisting that we should trade Delfino. I love Delfino and his potential. But other than the core group, we have no tradeable assets. And I'm sure Joe wants to make a move to try and improve the bench. Delfino has been underused and is disgruntled at this point. For whatever reason he hasn't fit into LB's or Flip's rotations. There has to be a reason why. It may be better to cut loose of him now or risk losing him to free agency after next season.

As for filling the spots vacated by Hunter, Cato, and Delk? That should'nt be an issue. Other than Lindsey, those other two are replaceable. Also, Hunter said he may still play next season. Cato's gone. Maxiell will get more playing time next year and Davis is still under contract. Delk is likely gone. We can pickup another backup guard with our mid level exception. We shouldn't worry. I'm sure Joe will make the proper moves.

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June 5th, 2006, 3:46 pm
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TADOne wrote:
other than the core group, we have no tradeable assets. And I'm sure Joe wants to make a move to try and improve the bench.


I would submit Alex Acker and Amir Johnson as tradeable assets.

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June 5th, 2006, 5:11 pm
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I would submit Alex Acker and Amir Johnson as tradeable assets.


Blue blood,

I would agree, except Acker only signed a one year deal. He is a free agent, but we have the club option on the 2nd year which I'm sure Dumars is going to invoke and have him play in the summer league.

Amir Johnson is a good talent, but he is only 19. And Joe has said that he is not moving him. He likes his potential.

BTW, good article today in the Free Press:

Quote:
If team president Joe Dumars has his way this summer, the Pistons won't look drastically different in the fall.

At his season wrap-up news conference Monday, Dumars laid out a plan that called for only minor adjustments, not a major overhaul.

"You don't do what we did this year, get where we got this year and say we're not good enough, we have to change our team completely," said Dumars, whose team was eliminated in six games by the Miami Heat in the Eastern Conference finals. "But do you add something to it? Absolutely."

He said he will bring back coach Flip Saunders and the top six players (assuming good negotiations with Arn Tellem, the agent for unrestricted free agent Ben Wallace) from the team that won 64 games this season but failed to reach the NBA Finals. He will supplement that consistency with a reworking of his bench, bringing in perhaps three or four new pieces.

His shopping list looks similar to last off-season's: add a primary bench scorer who can break down defenses to score easy buckets, especially inside, and also search for a pace-changing, backup point guard.

Before he got into the nitty-gritty of his summer work, Dumars said he classified the end of the season as "very disappointing" because the Pistons failed to reach their goal -- another NBA title.

But Dumars disagreed with the notion the entire season could be called a failure.

"I would not term it that," Dumars said. "What we've done over the past five years and what we did this season can't be termed a failure. But if you want to call it disappointing, I'm with you 100% on that."

In his eyes, his team failed to match the energy of its opponents, starting with the Cleveland series. He wasn't willing to theorize why that happened.

"When you start giving reasons for why you didn't have that energy, for me, that's excuses," Dumars said. "That's the absolute last thing I want to come out of this. There are no excuses. Bottom line is, we didn't get it done. And anything anybody says beyond we didn't get it done is an excuse."

That thinking suggests Dumars believes he had a team that was capable of getting it done. That's why the changes he wants to make -- changes he has seen coming all season -- will only tweak his roster, not change it drastically.

"What you don't do is just evaluate your team over the past two weeks," he said. "You can't build a team like that."

But if he has trouble re-signing Wallace, the team's center for the past six seasons, that small-change philosophy might shift. Real negotiations won't begin until July, but the two spoke briefly Saturday, when Dumars asked Wallace how he should handle Tellem. Wallace had just one suggestion.

"He said, 'Man, let's just try to get it done,' " Dumars said. "I said, 'Cool,' and that was the end of the conversation."

Though bringing Wallace back is their goal, the Pistons aren't likely to offer more than four years to the center, who turns 32 in September.

"At the end of the day, it's going to be Ben's call," Dumars said. "I'm going to do what I need to do to get him to come back, but at the end of the day, it's going to be his call, what he wants to do. My intentions are to bring the top six guys back."

As for Saunders, Dumars called his job security a "non-issue." This season was a learning process for Saunders, Dumars said, meaning that when he returns next season he will be better equipped to manage the personnel.

Dumars defended Saunders' use of the bench and said he lets his staff know the priority is to win games.

"I tell guys, we have to win, point-blank, get it done," Dumars said. "You start trying to implement those young guys, but it has to be the right time."

Yet he also voiced confidence in players already on the Pistons' payroll.

Dumars said he expects Argentine swingman Carlos Delfino to return next season, denying an ESPN report last week that Delfino would ask for a trade. Dumars said the two talked at length before Delfino returned home and even said he told Delfino he thought he should have played more than he did.

Rookies Amir Johnson, Alex Acker and Jason Maxiell will attend the team's summer camp in Las Vegas, and Dumars said one or two might be ready to make an impact next season. "This window that we have right now is not closed by any means," he said. "You have to maximize that as much as possible, and you have to be careful about adding too many young guys to your team. We would love to have some young talent come in, but it has to be at the right time."

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June 6th, 2006, 8:53 am
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He are some more comments from Joe in the same article:

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On possible help this summer: The Pistons hold a $5-million mid-level exception and could use it to woo a free agent, although this year's market isn't a strong one. Dumars wouldn't rule out making a trade, either. Draft-wise, the team has only the 60th overall pick.

On whether the team will change from a defensive to an offensive one: It's trying to meet somewhere in the middle. "You can only win in a one-dimensional manner for so long. I don't care who you are. ... You've got to diversify the way you win."

On his players' playoff complaints: On one hand, it's all stuff he has heard before. On the other, usually he hears it behind closed doors. He'd rather it had stayed that way. "They've complained for six years. It's just the first time it publicly got out, and that part I didn't like."

On the turning point in the playoffs: In Dumars' eyes, Game 4 in Milwaukee. "That was the last time I thought we were very impressive in the playoffs."

On how to create a new contract that's fair to both Ben Wallace and the team: "Hard-nosed negotiations. ... I want guys to know they're going to be compensated for what they've done here. But I also have a business to run going forward as well. Man, that's a delicate balance."
On whether the bench will play a bigger role: In the best-case scenario, yes. "Sometimes you need more help," Dumars said. "Sometimes the ability to just count on your five or six guys runs out. And you need add to that."

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June 6th, 2006, 8:58 am
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