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tmorgan wrote:
Was it Bill Cosby or George Carlin that said that you have to have a license to drive a car or have a dog, but any old bunghole can have kids?

One of the keys is making your kids "pay the piper" when they screw up. I have a 58 year old uncle who has been in and out of jail and still has his "mommy" pay his bills for him because she let him get away with everything as a kid. Even when he started to get in trouble with the law, she knew a few people who pulled a few strings for him. Now she is almost 80 and she has to do his housework, yardwork, pay his bills, etc. And she still thinks that her little boy is perfect and he has been a victim his whole life.


I have a great uncle like that, and it probably is a result of his parenting. But his older brother, my grandfather, one of the best people you ever met, and his sister both turned out great, and they were a result of good parenting, by the same people. The uncle in question left his wife with kids and she had to work at least two jobs to support them and put them through school. Same parents, but the kids turned out way different. Parenting must be pretty strange for a spectrum that big to exist in one family.

Mike,
you were talking about parents taking responsibilty for their kids. What exactly were you talking about. Do you mean taking an active role in raising them? If so I agree, but i'm not sure what you mean. I had to do a research paper in english two years ago about parental responsibily, where the kids vandalized a school or something and the parents got thrown in the slammer. I wrote that that is ridiculous and not straight with the personal responsiblity thing we have been talking about.

BTW,

Taking away people's kids might not be a bad idea. But it wouldn't stand up in court at all unless there was an immenet threat to the kids. But it would do our society a lot of good, especially if we could clean up foster care.

About video games, many people play them and turn out fine, like you conversion, but not only are they not as intellectually stimulating as reading, playing a puzzle, etc, but they do seem to effect people in a bad way sometimes. I've seen people take them way too seriously, and I've seen people whose lives revolve around them. They don't really have any social skills, and they kind of make me sad. Maybe I just don't understand them.

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March 25th, 2005, 6:10 pm
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bsand2053 wrote:

Mike,
you were talking about parents taking responsibilty for their kids. What exactly were you talking about. Do you mean taking an active role in raising them? If so I agree, but i'm not sure what you mean. I had to do a research paper in english two years ago about parental responsibily, where the kids vandalized a school or something and the parents got thrown in the slammer. I wrote that that is ridiculous and not straight with the personal responsiblity thing we have been talking about.


Taking an active role is exactly what I mean. As I stated, too many parents use video games and movies as low cost baby sitters in today's society. Some rely on their older children entirely too much to raise the younger kids. As a parent, I know the need to have some 'time off' from your children, but it means an occasional night out to dinner or something like that. Not putting the child in front of the TV set for hours so that they will 'be quiet and occupied'. Being a part of your childs daily life, no matter how loud it gets, is a part of the responsibility of parenting. Unfortunately, too many parents find other things to take up their time and don't leave anything for their kids. I was watching an episode of 'Wife Swap' with my family and they showed one couple who felt business and making money were the most important things in their lives, even more important than the children. That's just f-ed up. If money is so damned important, having children is not the most financially prudent thing to do. And what kind of message does it send to those kids?

As for the court holding parents responsible for what a child does, I have stated previously that's just wrong. Especially since it is the state and local governments which are telling parents if they spank their children they are guilty of assault and domestic violence.

LET PARENTS RAISE THEIR CHILDREN AS THEY SEE FIT :!: If you don't believe in spanking, that's fine. But don't push your beliefs on the rest of us, and don't take that manner of discipline away.

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March 25th, 2005, 6:52 pm
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I agree Mike, but what, if anything, should happen to these parents? Can we just let them keep on having kids or can we do something about it?

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March 29th, 2005, 5:01 pm
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Don't you hate it when parents can't accept that their kids are less than perfect. My mom works at a Catholic grade school, and she told me that some kids were caught cheating and the principal called in the parents for a meeting. Every single parent immediatly blamed the school for not teaching honensty. Dumbest thing I have ever heard.

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March 30th, 2005, 5:04 pm
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bsand2053 wrote:
I agree Mike, but what, if anything, should happen to these parents? Can we just let them keep on having kids or can we do something about it?


We really can't do anything about them having children (sad as that may be), but in regards to your first question there has to be some investigation done. Usually a childs misbehavior occurs as a pattern. The negative behavior is often a result of the child learning it from either a family member or another child (friend, cousin, etc.). It is up to the parents to make sure the child knows that behavior is deemed unacceptable at a VERY early age. Too often parents will let bad behavior continue when a child is very young (pre-schoolers) until the child is conditioned to believe what they are doing is OK. Then suddenly the parents want to change the rules and it's too late. At that point, the child starts misbehaving in school, gets in trouble and the parents don't approach the problem correctly, if at all. The parents will blame everything but the child, teaching said child that they are not responsible for their own behavior. That opens Pandora's Box, and now the child feels that what they are doing is acceptable, and if it gets them in trouble, is obviously some one else's fault. The parents will "bail" the child out of their situation, never realizing the long term effect. These are the parents who need to be dealt with and forced to subject the child, as well as themselves, to counseling. If a person who drives a car with a blood alcohol level deemed to be impaired can be forced to take counseling, then I think children and parents can be forced to as well. But that pattern of behavior by the parents has to be prevalent. A single misdeed cannot be blamed on the parents, but a child's pattern of bad behavior can. It is especially so if those said parents have not sought out some form of help in this regard.
I remember a set of parents who had a 16 year old boy who was continuously in trouble. Breaking and entering, petty theft, etc. The parents requested help from local authorities, even requesting that the boy be put in juvenille hall. The authorities refused. Then the boy was found guilty of grand theft and the parents were put on trial. The boy testified that his parents did what they could to change his ways, but he just didn't care. He also testified that he often threatened his parents, even going so far as to pull a knife on his mother. These parents had three other children who were fine, they asked for help and were refused it, but then the city wanted to hold them responsible.

This is the perfect example of why parents should be allowed to discipline their children as they see fit. These parents said that they couldn't hit that boy because they were threatened by him that if they did he would call the police on them. THAT's ridiculous, but that is the garbage being taught in our school system, and I think it sucks. Schools want to take God out of the equation and teach our children that guns are bad and parents who hit them are criminals. It is my firm belief that the reason there is an increasing number of parents who are choosing to home school their kids is because of this. Guns are not evil or bad. Guns do not hurt anyone if they are handled properly. A knife, hammer, baseball bat or any other weapon is just as dangerous. Yet our children are taught specifically that guns are bad. Are guns dangerous? Yes. And that is what should be taught. Are parents who discipline their children bad? No. And that is what should be taught. Children need to be taught that their misbehaving has negative consequences, some of which may involve spanking. And they need to be taught that bad things happen to bad people. Instead they're being taught that no one is responsible for their misdeeds, that someone else is to blame, and that there is no punishment for the guilty.

Things need to change from the liberalistic crap that is going on in our schools and in our judicial system. It has to start there and then trickle down into the homes.

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March 30th, 2005, 9:34 pm
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You say that schools want to take God out of the equation. How do you mean? Public Schools can't nor should teach out of the Bible. I think there is a lack of accoutablity to a higher authority these days definitly. Thats what keeps people from doing things that they might get away with, because they have to answer to God and their conscience. Even if it isn't Chrisianty, a more religous country would do us some good.

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March 31st, 2005, 9:53 am
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bsand2053 wrote:
You say that schools want to take God out of the equation. How do you mean? Public Schools can't nor should teach out of the Bible. I think there is a lack of accoutablity to a higher authority these days definitly. Thats what keeps people from doing things that they might get away with, because they have to answer to God and their conscience. Even if it isn't Chrisianty, a more religous country would do us some good.


Teaching out of the Bible and not allowing the word 'God' to be spoken, and allowing a child to pray, are two different things entirely. Also, why shouldn't public schools be allowed to teach from the Bible? It is the most widely translated, widely read book in the world by a long margin. I think the schools should include teachings from ANY book, including the Koran. Education is education, regardless of the source.

As one of the parents of the Colombine victims said, 'can anyone deny that most of the children who suffered through that tradgedy were praying to God on that terrible day to save them? Can anyone deny that the teachers and parents of the victims have prayed to God to accept the fallen into Heaven? If we were to follow the rules of public schools, those children who were praying and lived would have to be punished as a result.' This is another occasion where a minority of the population push their beliefs on the majority and are allowed to get away with it. 95% of the worlds population believes in a higher power. More than 70% of our country are a part of a Christian religion. More than half of people polled in the U.S. believe that removing prayer from schools was a mistake.

The same people who wanted prayer removed from school haven't stopped there. They are the same ones who want the word 'God' removed from Federal buildings, currency, and any and all applications of it in relation to anything having to do with the government in general. This country was founded by Christians based on Christian principles, and even that is something they want left out of the history books. And if that fact is something that certain people can't accept, they need to leave this country and find someplace else to live. We, as a country, should not have to modify over 200 years of history just to suit a few crybabies.

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March 31st, 2005, 1:49 pm
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About the bad parenting/lazy parenting/whatever you want to call it, 3 McD's in the Grand Rapids area were robbed within the past week. Along with the 3 McD's, a bank, and 2 churches were broken into and robbed as well. Now, who would rob and vandalize a church? I mean, that's absolutely pathetic.

Around Comstock (Kalamazoo area) there has been some guy robbing hair salons, radioshacks, subways, a low dollar movie theatre, liquor stores, gas stations, a couple banks, etc.

Society is pretty bad when you have people desperate enough to rob stores that carry very minimal cash such as subway and hair salons. And churches??? Granted, these places are the least monitored places, but the morality of these people. Geeze.


April 4th, 2005, 9:15 am
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It is one thing to raise bad kids...but quite another to raise a bad and stupid kid. A few years back a kid robbed a bank in Oxford...and his gettaway vehicle was a bike new_microwave.gif

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April 4th, 2005, 9:35 am
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Ya gotta love those Darwin Award winners!


April 4th, 2005, 9:56 am
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