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 Deal opens way for Soriano trade 
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wjb21ndtown wrote:
Billy... I realize that it was not you, but rather Blueblood that incorrectly asserted that Crawford would cost more than Abreu or Soriano...


Well, I beg your pardon.

Perhaps I was not thorough in the context in which I was claiming Crawford would be more expensive than Abreu....

I was NOT stating that Crawford would be owed a bigger salary. He won't. I meant to indicate that the D-Rays are asking "a king's ransom" for their franchise position player, and by "king's ransom," I mean multiple current major leaguers in return.

I have been following every last development on this otherwise desolate trade market, and the first rumors of Crawford being available were in conjunction with Anaheim's supposed offer of Ervin Santana AND a player like Chone Figgins or a major-league ready prospect like Howie Kendrick. Then the Rockies joined the bidding, offering a pitcher (I believe Francis) and Brad Hawpe for Crawford. From what I have heard, TB balked at both of these offers.

Approximately equate those offers in terms of Tigers and you get something like: Miner and Granderson. But for the Rays to accept, who knows what it would take? I would venture a guess and it is not pretty: you can bet it would include Verlander, Zumuya, or C-Grand. Certainly, the Tigers would not trade on of these guys who have already proven that they will be stars for years to come.

Furthermore, the Rays are correct to be asking for more than the Phils (who, for clarification's sake, seem more concerned with making sure Abreu's compensated for waiving his suddenly valuable no-trade clause, finding a cheaper replacement for the rest of the season to free up some cap space, and adding young prospects, which is why they are still talking to the Yanks who have few prospects but wads of cash). The Tigers are still in the bidding for Abreu because Illitch has come out and said that money will not be an obstacle to Dombrowski bringing in a playmaker for the stretch run. The Tigers have not in the running for Crawford for two weeks now because there is no way they want to give up more than one promising young player.

If I am still allowed to post a brazen opinion, I'll submit that I would rather have Crawford because: a) He is slightly younger than Abreu (most notably under that critical age: 27); b) he is under a longer-term contract so we could keep him longer before having to figure out how to resign him; c) he is one of a few players better in the field and on the basepaths than Abreu; d) he could lead off for a team that could use some options there; and [F'n] e) HE BATS LEFT!!! (tit for tat)

So it is not so hard to see why Crawford might just carry too much of a price for the Tigers to pursue. Abreu appears to be negotiable.
Soriano bats right, strikes out too much AND could develop malignant tendencies in the clubhouse if not stroked constantly.

:x

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July 17th, 2006, 10:20 pm
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PT Bruiser wrote:
I'd rather get Abreu than Crawford for the these reasons.

1) He can hit for power.
2) He's a left handed hitter (fills a need)
3) I don't care about the contract.
4) Maybin will be our centerfielder of the future. (Crawford not needed)


1) that's the upside with Abreu.
2) [nod], but so is Crawford.
3) Neither does Illitch, buy he might not like it trying to resign him when he wants to go to the Evil Empire in about 12 months instead of resigning....
4) ..............????..............Abreu plays rightfield currently......Crawford plays leftfield......where's the issue? Were you alluding to what to do with C-Grand?
5) I would add that Abreu draws a slew of walks....which can only help....

Certainly, it is only practical to get one of the two. And it is my opinion that it will come down to how many prospects their incumbant GMs will require to send them to us.....We don't want a desolate cupboard like we had only 2-3 years ago....

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July 17th, 2006, 10:27 pm
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blueblood1 wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Billy... I realize that it was not you, but rather Blueblood that incorrectly asserted that Crawford would cost more than Abreu or Soriano...


Well, I beg your pardon.

Perhaps I was not thorough in the context in which I was claiming Crawford would be more expensive than Abreu....

I was NOT stating that Crawford would be owed a bigger salary. He won't. I meant to indicate that the D-Rays are asking "a king's ransom" for their franchise position player, and by "king's ransom," I mean multiple current major leaguers in return.

I have been following every last development on this otherwise desolate trade market, and the first rumors of Crawford being available were in conjunction with Anaheim's supposed offer of Ervin Santana AND a player like Chone Figgins or a major-league ready prospect like Howie Kendrick. Then the Rockies joined the bidding, offering a pitcher (I believe Francis) and Brad Hawpe for Crawford. From what I have heard, TB balked at both of these offers.

Approximately equate those offers in terms of Tigers and you get something like: Miner and Granderson. But for the Rays to accept, who knows what it would take? I would venture a guess and it is not pretty: you can bet it would include Verlander, Zumuya, or C-Grand. Certainly, the Tigers would not trade on of these guys who have already proven that they will be stars for years to come.

Furthermore, the Rays are correct to be asking for more than the Phils (who, for clarification's sake, seem more concerned with making sure Abreu's compensated for waiving his suddenly valuable no-trade clause, finding a cheaper replacement for the rest of the season to free up some cap space, and adding young prospects, which is why they are still talking to the Yanks who have few prospects but wads of cash). The Tigers are still in the bidding for Abreu because Illitch has come out and said that money will not be an obstacle to Dombrowski bringing in a playmaker for the stretch run. The Tigers have not in the running for Crawford for two weeks now because there is no way they want to give up more than one promising young player.

If I am still allowed to post a brazen opinion, I'll submit that I would rather have Crawford because: a) He is slightly younger than Abreu (most notably under that critical age: 27); b) he is under a longer-term contract so we could keep him longer before having to figure out how to resign him; c) he is one of a few players better in the field and on the basepaths than Abreu; d) he could lead off for a team that could use some options there; and [F'n] e) HE BATS LEFT!!! (tit for tat)

So it is not so hard to see why Crawford might just carry too much of a price for the Tigers to pursue. Abreu appears to be negotiable.
Soriano bats right, strikes out too much AND could develop malignant tendencies in the clubhouse if not stroked constantly.

:x


A player will only fetch the price he can on an open market... Perhaps the Rays want too much for him and he won't be traded, but you did assert that we shouldn't go after Crawford and we SHOULD persue a player like Soriano or Abreu - a player that should be able to demand a higher price on an open market... I'm not talking about "salary" I'm talking about player for player compensation... Soriano and Abreu should both cost more than Crawford... Perhaps you misunderstood me, I thought I was clear...


July 17th, 2006, 10:55 pm
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Post TIGERS CORNER: Tigers like Soriano, but the price is steep
Freep.com wrote:
The Tigers are one of at least four teams playing deadline poker with the Washington Nationals in pursuit of powerful outfielder Alfonso Soriano. And the ante is steep.

The Nationals want three prospects and have asked that prized right-hander Humberto Sanchez be included in the deal. Sanchez (5-2, 3.19 ERA at Triple-A Toledo) has pitched superbly since his promotion from Double-A Erie. He started and pitched one perfect inning in the All-Star Futures Game and has an overall potential that compares favorably to that of rookies Justin Verlander and Joel Zumaya.

Washington officials are requesting a package that includes Sanchez, rising prospect Jair Jurrjens (3-2, 2.78 at Double-A Erie) and a position player. Their first request was 2005 first-round pick Cameron Maybin, but the Tigers will not trade him. The parties may, however, settle on Erie outfielder Brent Clevlen, a former second-round pick, currently with Erie.

Soriano is hitting .282 with 29 home runs -- 10 more than the Tigers' leader, Marcus Thames -- and has 23 stolen bases. Still, the Tigers' interest in meeting the Nationals' demands remains unclear. Other teams in pursuit of Soriano include the Angels, Mariners, and Yankees.

It would be rare to trade a prospect of Sanchez's caliber for a player who will enter free agency at the end of this season, as Soriano will. However, the Tigers may want to seize the opportunity to infuse power into the lineup for the pennant race.

Contact JON PAUL MOROSI at 313-223-4097 or jmorosi@freepress.com.

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July 18th, 2006, 3:03 pm
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Post Re: TIGERS CORNER: Tigers like Soriano, but the price is ste
TheRealWags wrote:
Freep.com wrote:
The Tigers are one of at least four teams playing deadline poker with the Washington Nationals in pursuit of powerful outfielder Alfonso Soriano. And the ante is steep.

The Nationals want three prospects and have asked that prized right-hander Humberto Sanchez be included in the deal. Sanchez (5-2, 3.19 ERA at Triple-A Toledo) has pitched superbly since his promotion from Double-A Erie. He started and pitched one perfect inning in the All-Star Futures Game and has an overall potential that compares favorably to that of rookies Justin Verlander and Joel Zumaya.

Washington officials are requesting a package that includes Sanchez, rising prospect Jair Jurrjens (3-2, 2.78 at Double-A Erie) and a position player. Their first request was 2005 first-round pick Cameron Maybin, but the Tigers will not trade him. The parties may, however, settle on Erie outfielder Brent Clevlen, a former second-round pick, currently with Erie.

Soriano is hitting .282 with 29 home runs -- 10 more than the Tigers' leader, Marcus Thames -- and has 23 stolen bases. Still, the Tigers' interest in meeting the Nationals' demands remains unclear. Other teams in pursuit of Soriano include the Angels, Mariners, and Yankees.

It would be rare to trade a prospect of Sanchez's caliber for a player who will enter free agency at the end of this season, as Soriano will. However, the Tigers may want to seize the opportunity to infuse power into the lineup for the pennant race.

Contact JON PAUL MOROSI at 313-223-4097 or jmorosi@freepress.com.


As much as I like and want Soriano on the Tigers, JUST SAY NO :!:

That price is far too steep. We stand as reasonable a chance as anyone else of getting him as a FA this offseason. And it won't cost us our TOP pitching prospect.

In my earlier post, I wasn't refering to trading our top pitching prospect. I wouldn't trade either of our top 2 pitching prospects. #3 and down, I would.

If the Nats want Sanchez, Jurrgens, and Clevlen; They better offer more than Soriano. They better be prepaired to throw Nick Johnson (1st base) into the deal.

I might be ok with something like this:
From Tigers; Humberto Sanchez, Bret Clevlen, and Chris Shelton.
From Nats; Alfonso Soriano, and Nick Johnson ( a definate upgrade @ 1st base for us).

That deal would be contingient on Soriano signing a long term deal with the Tigers before the trigger is even pulled. I think this deal would be fair to both sides. I seriously doubt that the Angels and Yankees have the ammo to match that trade. But, the Mariners might.

A trade like that would also leave plenty in our arsenal to work a trade for Abreu.

This how I would like an Abreu trade to look:
From Philly; Bobby Areu
From Tigers; Placido Polanco ( expendable after acquiring Soriano), Jarr Jurrgens, Craig Monroe.

Even after these 2 deals, we would still have plenty in our arsenal in the minors:

Preston Larison ----Toledo-------- 4-8 but a respectable 3.84 ERA <--- ------------------That indicates a lack of affensive support. This guy is a surefire major league prospect.

Chad Durbin---------Toledo-------8-5 2.97 ERA The ERA speaks for itself.

Jordan Tata----------Toledo-------7-3 3.57 ERA He pitches a lot like Mike Maroth. Tigers-------no decisions 3.86 ERA in 14 innings with the Tigers this year.

Zach Miner-----------Toledo------6-0 2.82 ERA
-----------Tigers------6-2 3.30 ERA I don't think any Starting Pitcher in the Tigers organization has more wins this year than Miner.


July 18th, 2006, 5:21 pm
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Billy... Nice thoughts on trying to land BOTH Soriano and Abreu, but I don't think I would like to mortgage our future that badly... Both players are 30+ and both would need to be re-signed... Additionally, IMO adding two players into the line-up would disrupt the chemestry of the team... It could work, but I wouldn't want to deal with the devil in that regard... I would like to see us make one trade... A minor tweaking... But nothing huge... I think getting Soriano is problematic simply for where he currently bats... He's batted lead-off, second spot, and third... I wouldn't want to disrupt the bottom portion of the order... I wouldn't want to move around the young granderson, or the high average hitter Polanco... I also like Pudge and Mags right where they are, and I'm not so sure he'd take kindly to batting 5th+...


July 18th, 2006, 10:46 pm
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wjb21ndtown wrote:
Billy... Nice thoughts on trying to land BOTH Soriano and Abreu, but I don't think I would like to mortgage our future that badly... Both players are 30+ and both would need to be re-signed... Additionally, IMO adding two players into the line-up would disrupt the chemestry of the team... It could work, but I wouldn't want to deal with the devil in that regard... I would like to see us make one trade... A minor tweaking... But nothing huge... I think getting Soriano is problematic simply for where he currently bats... He's batted lead-off, second spot, and third... I wouldn't want to disrupt the bottom portion of the order... I wouldn't want to move around the young granderson, or the high average hitter Polanco... I also like Pudge and Mags right where they are, and I'm not so sure he'd take kindly to batting 5th+...


Leyland has mentioned a few times that granderson is destined to hit lower in the order. Because of his youth, Leyland wanted to bat him in the 9th spot this year. But, due to the fact that there is NO-ONE else that can bat leadoff effectively, Leyland was forced to bat Granderson leadoff.
Getting Soriano fixes that problem for Leyland and gives him some flexability. Getting Abreu, gives Mags some protection by making it impossible for pitchers to just pitch arround him because if a pitcher were to give Mags the (UNINTENTIONAL) intentional walk, they would still have to deal with Abreu + a man on base.

But, I do agree that it could be quite a disruption to do 2 major deals in 1 season. If there is a manager capable of keeping things at an even kiel, it's Leyland though.

Also, I don't believe it would be "Mortgaging the Future". The only TOP prospect we would be trading in either trade scenario that I mentioned would be Humberto Sanchez. I have never heard of this Jarr Jurrjens before the report that Wags posted. So, he can't be THAT high on the Tigers list of top prospects. He isn't even on the Tigers 40 man roster.

Holy crap :!: I just peeked at the 40 man roster to be sure that I was correct about Jurrjens ( I was). I thought Troy Percival retired due to injury. He is still listed on the 40 man roster.


July 19th, 2006, 9:18 am
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Here's a link to a Rob Parker article.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060719/SPORTS08/607190314/1129/SPORTS0104

I think he's smoking something. Unless Philly really wanted to get rid of that contract. He has Marcus Thames and Zach Miner for Abreu.

I would do it in a New York minute. Even if it meant taking on that huge contract.

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July 19th, 2006, 6:05 pm
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Just finished watching Sportscenter and the rumor that the Detroit Tigers are going to land Bobby Abreu is fading. Since Dmitri Young is coming back Dave Dombrowski doesn't feel like he needs to give up our top prospects to land Bobby Abreu. Who knows, maybe Dmitri Young will play amazingly well when he comes back and all of our LH hitting problems will be gone.


July 19th, 2006, 6:48 pm
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Dmitri is garbage. He'll never help this team as long as he's here. Trade his old crappy self for a minor league prospect.

Thames and Miner for Abreu is not worth it IMO. You're trading for a guy you're going to have to resign who's going to want Pudge type coin. The Tigers shouldn't give up 2 very good youngsters for an fairly old, overpaid heavy hitter.

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July 19th, 2006, 7:35 pm
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conversion02 wrote:
Dmitri is garbage. He'll never help this team as long as he's here. Trade his old crappy self for a minor league prospect.

Thames and Miner for Abreu is not worth it IMO. You're trading for a guy you're going to have to resign who's going to want Pudge type coin. The Tigers shouldn't give up 2 very good youngsters for an fairly old, overpaid heavy hitter.


Are you serious? Thames and Miner for Abreu would be a fudge steal!! Thames is having a good year, but is expensable because of Craig Monroe and Zach Miner is having a good year, but he's nothing spectacular. If this trade really isn't a joke the Tigers better jump on it ASAP!!


July 19th, 2006, 8:35 pm
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Monroe stinks. He's not a good DH. I like what he brings, but he's not consistent enough. If he actually played the field and not just DH, he would be more valuable.

Miner needs to stay. Yes they have Verlander and Bondo, but Rogers won't be here too long. Another year I'd say. Not longer than that. Who do they have after Ver and Bondo? Zumaya? Not consistent enough to be a starter. Colon stinks. Ledezma stinks too. They need to keep Miner for the future. At least let him play a whole season. He wins 20 games next season and they can get a hell of a deal for him.

You can't trade Thames. He's a very good defensive player and he can bring the wood.

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July 19th, 2006, 9:04 pm
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adpreston1385 wrote:
Zach Miner is having a good year, but he's nothing spectacular.


Surely you can't be serious :!:

Have you watched this kid pitch? He is 1 of only a handfull of Starting Pitchers to have 12 wins under his belt already this season when you add the 6 wins he got at Toledo before being called up.

On a different front,
Read the note at the bottom of the following article.

Quote:
By LARRY LAGE, AP Sports Writer
July 19, 2006

DETROIT (AP) -- It was not just another hit for Craig Monroe, and it wasn't just one more win for the team with the best record in baseball.

Monroe's grand slam in the sixth inning lifted the Detroit Tigers to a 5-2 victory over the Chicago White Sox on Wednesday night, their second victory in eight games this season against the defending World Series champions.

"It's by far the biggest one I've ever hit," Monroe said of the Tigers' first grand slam of the season. "You can't describe it -- the atmosphere, who we're playing. We downplay it and talk about it just being another series, but we know we're chasing them. They're the defending champions."

A roaring, sellout crowd would not sit until Monroe went to the top step of the dugout at Comerica Park, a rare curtain call at Detroit's home since 2000.

"It was cool because I was in the bullpen when he hit it and all I could do was look up in the crowd," said Todd Jones, who closed the game. "The fans totally erupted. I just shook my head because this is Detroit, and these fans deserve this after what they've been through.

The Tigers averaged 100 losses from 2001-2005 -- including an AL-record 119 just three years ago -- but there's no way they can hit triple digits in this stunning season. Detroit should finish with its first winning season since 1993 and might make the playoffs for the first time since 1987.

Detroit (63-31) leads the AL Central by a season-high 4 1/2 games over the White Sox, who have the second-best record in the majors.

"We're not keeping track of how many wins we have against them," Monroe said. "We just know we're up 4 1/2 games."

Jeremy Bonderman (10-4) allowed two runs and four hits and struck out six over 7 1-3 innings for Detroit.

Javier Vazquez (9-5) held the Tigers scoreless for five innings, but they started the sixth with four consecutive singles and Monroe followed with his 14th homer of the season for a 5-2 lead.

"It's frustrating," Vazquez said. "I threw the ball OK, even in the sixth, but they get a couple bloopers. The bases are loaded, it's 2-1, and I didn't want it to get out of hand. Then I hang a slider and they get the home run."

Chicago beat the Tigers 7-1 Tuesday night, leading some to wonder if they were simply overmatched.

Chicago White Sox third baseman Joe Crede hits a solo home run against Detroit Tigers pitcher Jeremy Bonderman in the third inning of their Major League Baseball game in Detroit, Wednesday, July 19, 2006.
AP - Jul 19, 10:16 pm EDT
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"Last night, a lot of people were ready to bury us. Tonight, we're back in good graces," Tigers manager Jim Leyland said. "That's why you just can't get involved in that. If you do, you'll drive yourself crazy."

With the three-game series on the line, Detroit's Kenny Rogers (11-3) will face Chicago's Jose Contreras (9-1) Thursday in a matchup of All-Stars. Rogers has given up 19 runs in his last four starts.

"If we win, it is a lift for us," White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen said. "It's not do or die, but it is important for whoever wins. Hopefully, Kenny Rogers shows up the way he has shown up the last few times, and we can take advantage."

Joe Crede and Juan Uribe hit homers to give the White Sox a 2-0 lead, but they couldn't do much else against Bonderman, who hasn't lost since May 29 and is 5-0 with a 2.31 ERA in his last nine starts.

"Bonderman was the key," Leyland said.

When Bonderman was replaced by Fernando Rodney after allowing his only walk, he tipped his hat on the way to the dugout to acknowledge a standing ovation.

Rodney completed the eighth, Jamie Walker got Jim Thome to lead off the ninth and Jones finished in a non-save situation.

Vazquez allowed five runs, seven hits and a walk while striking out five. He has given up at least five runs in his last nine starts, but he lost for just the second time during that stretch.

"The one thing he does not do is get out of the big innings," Guillen said. "He was cruising along, and then he loses his momentum. When you do that against that ballclub, you get hammered."

Notes

Guillen doesn't expect the White Sox to make a major trade, but hopes the Tigers deal for Washington OF Alfonso Soriano. "They would have to give up (Justin) Verlander or (Joel) Zumaya," Guillen said. "I'd rather see Soriano at the plate than Verlander or Zumaya on the mound." ... Rodriguez hit a double in the first inning, extending his hitting streak to a season-high 10 games. He has at least two hits in 10 of 15 games. ... Thome was 0-for-4, ending a season-best hitting streak at 10 games, and Chicago 1B Paul Konerko ended a 15-game hitting streak against the Tigers by going 0-for-3. ... Crede has a visiting-best 12 homers at Comerica Park, followed by Konerko (11) and Thome (10).


SURELY, THEY CAN'T BE SERIOUS :!:
If the Nats are require either Verlander or Zumaya in a trade for Soriano, They can keep Soriano for the rest of the year and we will just wait until FA to sign Soriano. I am confident that we can make it to the World Series without a trade. If we can get to the show, we will win it. The National league teams are not even close to being as good in the pitching department as the top 5 American league teams.

As for Trading Thames and Miner for Abreu, Same as above with Soriano.
They can keep him and we will take our chances with FA.


July 20th, 2006, 10:03 am
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roar.mlblogs.com wrote:
10 Impossible Trades That I'd Like to See
10. Humberto Sanchez & Jordan Tata (det) for Lastings Miledge (NYM)

9. Jason Giambi (NYY) for Barry Bonds (SF) One roider is as good as another righ?

8. 3 team trade; Dodgers get Frank Thomas & Mark Prior, A?s get Kerry Wood, and the Cubs get Nomar?again? and then they would all not play the rest of the year due to injury

7. Adam Dunn and Ken Griffey Jr. (CIN) for Freddy Sanchez(2B), Ian Senll (SP) and Gonzalez (RHP)- Because Reds GM figures even if the pitcher isn?t that great where they are now doesn?t mean they won?t put up all star numbers in Cincinatti..Plus how cool would Dunn and Griffey look in those black, yellow and white jerseys?

6. Albert Pujols (STL) for Andy Petite, Roy Oswalt, and Matt Lamb (HOU)- It would be sweet to see Pujols hit more homruns off the top of minute maid park.

5. Sidney Ponson (NYY) for Jeff Weaver (STL) because this trade would make as much sense as both of these teams picking up these players in the first place!

4. John Smoltz (ATL) and Andruw Jones (ATL) for David Ortiz (BOS)

3. Richie Sexson, Raul Ibanez, and Ichiro (Sea) for Aramis Ramirez, Juan Pierre, Jaque Jones, Glendon Rusch, and Ryan Dempster (CHC) (Not a cubbies fan but what an outfield that would be...wait a minute..why isn't Seattle good with that outfield???)

2. A.J. Pierzinski (CHW), Paul Konerko (CHW) for Jake Peavy(SD) -So I wouldn't have to see A.J. on television broadcasts in Michigan.

1. 3 Team trade; Phillies get; Craig Monroe, Jordan Tata, and Zach Miner. Nationals get; Humberto Sanchez, Wilfredo Ledezma, Omar Infante and Nook Logan, Tigers get; Alfonso Soriano and Bobby Abreu.! And the Tigers Win the World Series!

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July 21st, 2006, 1:37 pm
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Gosh, I really, really hope the ChiSox don't get Soriano. He'll love hitting in U.S. Cellular....in October.

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July 24th, 2006, 4:20 pm
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