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 The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited. 
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
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As for religions, I think most forget that at the beginning of this nation, every state had it's own religious domination. There were more religions back then than there are now, since everything is rolled into Christianity instead of standing alone. The government shouldn't favor one over the other, but there's nothing saying the government can't or won't be influenced by religion. The only mention of "separation of church and state" in an official document is from Jefferson to an official in CT basically saying the same thing. The Constitution only gives the freedom to all, and the guarantee government won't interfere or favor one over the other. That's it.


Maybe its just me but swearing on the Bible "to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help me god" which is a reference to the Christian version of God is quite a bit of favor. It needs to go.


February 17th, 2016, 12:15 pm
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
It's not favor at all. Do you know why the Bible is used? The 10 Commandments were the first known written laws until 1901, when they discovered Hammurabi's Code. They were known to be written in 2000-1700 BC, while the 10 Commandments were known to be written about 1300 BC, but debatable if they were written earlier since the actual tablets were destroyed and word of mouth didnt become "on paper" until much later. It's a tradition based on laws, not religion that you swear on the law.

Sure, you could say we should switch to swearing on Hammurabi's code now, but all of modern civilization has used the Bible for the process, so it's long-held tradition that isn't going to change anytime soon. It's in the Bible, it's in the Torah, it's in the Q'uran, so it's not just one religion, so it's not a religious practice. god is the same in all three religions also. God is god, Yaweh is god, Allah is god. God is our translation of the word, so we wouldn't use a foreign name. Just like we won't mandate Hola instead of Hello whenever hispanics outnumber caucasians.

Not everything needs a political correctness adjustment.


February 17th, 2016, 3:12 pm
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
That'd be fine if our laws were based on the bible or the 10 commandements, but they're not. In fact, our laws run deeply counter to the bible in many fundamental ways. Only two of the 10 commandments (against stealing and killing) remain relevant, and many of our more important laws (against things like child abuse, rape, fraud, etc) are not mentioned. Might as swear on the epic of gilgamesh or beowulf if you think putting your hand on an old document has any meaning.

And I'm not saying Trump's proposed ban on Muslims is unconstitutional. Only that it sets a very dangerous precedent for religious people.

Let's say that rationality and reason continue to grow and triumph, and 50 years from now, more than half the country is atheist/agnostic. Some president, backed by the majority of the population, proposing banning all overtly religious people from entering the country. What say you?

It's important to remember that, just because you're not the minority today, doesn't mean you won't be someday. That's largely the entire basis of our republican government.


February 17th, 2016, 3:20 pm
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
Blueskies wrote:
That'd be fine if our laws were based on the bible or the 10 commandements, but they're not. In fact, our laws run deeply counter to the bible in many fundamental ways. Only two of the 10 commandments (against stealing and killing) remain relevant, and many of our more important laws (against things like child abuse, rape, fraud, etc) are not mentioned. Might as swear on the epic of gilgamesh or beowulf if you think putting your hand on an old document has any meaning.


It's not just an old document, it's it being the symbol of first law that started the tradition.

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And I'm not saying Trump's proposed ban on Muslims is unconstitutional. Only that it sets a very dangerous precedent for religious people.

Let's say that rationality and reason continue to grow and triumph, and 50 years from now, more than half the country is atheist/agnostic. Some president, backed by the majority of the population, proposing banning all overtly religious people from entering the country. What say you?

It's important to remember that, just because you're not the minority today, doesn't mean you won't be someday. That's largely the entire basis of our republican government.


It's not a precedent though. We banned Japanese and German immigrants during World War II. And communist countries for most of the cold war. The internment camps are what most remember, but we've banned plenty of others when a perceived threat was present. The real problem is our immigration system is so broken, the average legal immigration from Mexico is 20+ years. It takes legal immigrants a year or two to get a simple renewal on their status. That backlog makes it impossible to vet anyone at a reasonable level, so when someone makes bold claims after not a threat, but an attack, it's not as far fetched, as it seems. To take that to just a blanket ban on religion is a stretch, but I think it would have a harder time due to the circumstances.


February 17th, 2016, 4:06 pm
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
If you can't see the difference between banning someone from a country we're at war with, and banning someone who belongs to a particular religion, I really don't know what to tell you.


February 17th, 2016, 4:40 pm
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
njroar wrote:
It's not favor at all. Do you know why the Bible is used? The 10 Commandments were the first known written laws until 1901, when they discovered Hammurabi's Code. They were known to be written in 2000-1700 BC, while the 10 Commandments were known to be written about 1300 BC, but debatable if they were written earlier since the actual tablets were destroyed and word of mouth didnt become "on paper" until much later. It's a tradition based on laws, not religion that you swear on the law.

Sure, you could say we should switch to swearing on Hammurabi's code now, but all of modern civilization has used the Bible for the process, so it's long-held tradition that isn't going to change anytime soon. It's in the Bible, it's in the Torah, it's in the Q'uran, so it's not just one religion, so it's not a religious practice. god is the same in all three religions also. God is god, Yaweh is god, Allah is god. God is our translation of the word, so we wouldn't use a foreign name. Just like we won't mandate Hola instead of Hello whenever hispanics outnumber caucasians.

Not everything needs a political correctness adjustment.


I do appreciate the History lesson as I like to learn new stuff and didn't know that. That said, I'm not a PC person at all (just ask my wife), but believe we shouldn't use God or any reference to ANY religion, Western or Otherwise in a court of Law unless the current case is about said Religion. I also stopped saying the pledge of allegiance in 3rd grade because i realized even then we weren't a country about "Liberty & Justice for all" (unless all meant Rich White Landowners) and I felt blasphemous just saying it. Got a lot of grief with my elementary school teachers over it, but none of them could out-argue me on the concept so they let it lie. Im not going to get all rambunctious gun toting angry about it, nor would I really want our already super inefficient government wasting any time/money changing things, just giving my opinion.


February 17th, 2016, 5:09 pm
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
It's literally such a terrible argument I'm frankly dumbfounded that njroar would advance it with, I assume, a straight face, unless he's just trolling.

"Well guys, a lot of people thought it was the first written code of laws. Turns out they were wrong. But hey, we were doing it for so long, why not continue?"

We thought Pluto was a planet for like 80 years. Should we just continue to label it a planet because #tradition #'merica?


February 18th, 2016, 1:44 am
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
Blueskies wrote:
It's literally such a terrible argument I'm frankly dumbfounded that njroar would advance it with, I assume, a straight face, unless he's just trolling.

"Well guys, a lot of people thought it was the first written code of laws. Turns out they were wrong. But hey, we were doing it for so long, why not continue?"

We thought Pluto was a planet for like 80 years. Should we just continue to label it a planet because #tradition #'merica?


It's not #tradition #'merica, it's #tradition #world since the 400s in the Roman Empire. And in the US, it's not mandatory to use a bible. You can swear or affirm without one.


February 18th, 2016, 7:07 am
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
Again, that's not really an argument at all.

And it isn't the world. They don't use it Saudi Arabia, China, or Japan, for example.

Moreover, the purpose is not to cite the 10 commandments. If that was the case, why not just swear in a printed out version of the 10 commandments? Or stare at a list of them? No, rather, it's to use religion for it's original intended purpose -- a way to scare and influence weak-minded people. "Oh noes! If I lie, I might go to hell!" A psychological prop, no different from when an interrogator fills the room with photos of the alleged perpetrator's victims.

As the late great George Carlin said, "I'll tell you as much truth as the people who wrote that bible."


February 18th, 2016, 12:04 pm
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
Wouldn't you think if a God actually created "Ten Commandments" and put them in stone for us to follow forever that stone itself would be virtually indestructible? I mean, if they are that important - wouldn't they still exist today?

If memory serves me correct, both tablets were quite small - why not just put them all on one tablet?

I know few Christians study other faiths and history, I've also pointed out how much of the stories of the Bible are taken form earlier faiths. The Egyptian Book of the Dead has some passages that seem to have influenced the Ten Commandments. There is also the Code of Hammurabi, a Babylonian law code (amazingly, despite how old it is still is well preserved to this day in a stone carving). In this story Hammurabi claimed to receive his code from the Babylonian god of justice - Shamash. Moses received his commandments, less detailed but quite similar nonetheless, 300 years later.

I won't claim that Moses copied Hammurabi, there are many more blatant cases of plagiarism littered throughout the Bible. In reality, these commandments were such common sense "rules" that they would have existed in many lands at the time (and of course they did). There was no need to copy other work, these weren't Earth shattering ideas Yahweh laid down.

Christian's try to lay claim to so much, "our country was found on Christian values", simply ignoring where those values were derived from. And once again, for a being who "created" everything - it is amazing how unoriginal his book is - must have lost all his creativity after those first six days...

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February 18th, 2016, 12:46 pm
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
DJ-B wrote:
I am just Cherry picking here because I haven't read back through the entire thread.

2nd Amendment: Regardless of whether the 2nd was for state (militia formation) or Individual (protection) it Was written in a time where gun weaponry was very weak and crude. To imply that meant ANY type of gun is ridiculous as obviously the forefathers couldn't have known what would develop and when. Should i be able to own a rocket launcher? A Vulcan Cannon? A High Powered Military grade sniper rifle? An M16, a Handgun. I'm not saying yes or no to any of them explicitly IMO, and I am pretty sure the forefathers weren't implying "anything that could be considered "bearing arms". At some point Logic and the current government (with the guidance of the people) has to step in and start drawing lines. And to me the lines are pretty damn clear and common sense. We all have the right to self defense and to protect our property. A Handgun, hunting Rifle and a few other firearms fit that category perfectly. NOBODY needs an M16, Uzi, RPG, Ak47, etc to defend their home. Using the 2nd Amendment written hundred of years ago as a blanket statement to explain having 30 guns in your basement because your a gun hobbyist who likes the adrenaline feeling of shooting things (I've gone shooting and it was fudge fun)... is just plain ridiculous to the rest of us.


Rights and needs are two completely different things. And nobody has the right to determine what I need, or what anyone else has need for. There is no fundamental difference between those weapons deemed an "assault" weapon, and a typical out-of-the-box AR15. An AR15 is THE most common hunting rifle in America today, if I am not mistaken. Tell the people that used an AK47 to defend their homes during the LA riots they had no right or need for it. Tell the woman who used her M4 style carbine rifle she had no need or right to use it to defend herself from four home invaders armed with guns, knives and bats. Tell the numerous citizens every year who use a semi-automatic rifle, styled like an AR15, that they have no need or right to it.

Most people forget that during the time of the Revolutionary War, there were more than just muskets being used to fight with. While I understand that nobody should be able to just walk into a store and be able to purchase a fully automatic weapon, that's not what people are fighting for. Look at Europe and Australia. Do you think they, for one second, thought their basic rights to own a firearm would be taken away by their governments? What about the guy from Pennsylvania who was driving through New Jersey, got stopped by police for a broken tail light, and then was arrested and charged with illegal possession and transportation of a firearm, because he had a 1700's, inoperable flintlock pistol locked in his glove compartment? You think that's reasonable? That is GOVERNMENT at work. And letting our government take an inch is akin to them being allowed to take a mile. You think it will stop at simple semi-automatic rifles? And why ban those, as they account for less than 3% of shootings in this country?

It's not about public safety (which is INCREASED as gun ownership by citizens increases, the data supports that), and it's not about hunting rights. It's about our citizens being able to defend themselves against numerous threats at a moments notice. Our government is our single biggest threat to our freedoms. Not the Taliban, not ISIS, not the Chinese, North Koreans or Russians. And We the People should be capable of having arms worthy of stopping them.

This 2A discussion has been had many times before. The Second was NOT limited to the technology any particular period of time. It is about the People having rights to stop a government that has become tyrannical. And this current administration is coming damn close.

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February 18th, 2016, 7:45 pm
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
Any bets that this "GATHERING" is really a meeting to lay down the logistics for an invasion of Israel in an effort to drive the Jews into the sea? And when that is accomplished, turn their attention to invading America in an attempt to undo the Election of Donald Trump?
The Global Community Nazis are losing control and this is their last chance to get back control. It's very interesting that this meeting is happening, in short order, before Trump gets sworn in as President. Since Obama became president, I have assumed that the War of Gog and Magog would happen during Obama's Presidency because the bible says that no one would come to Israel's assistance. Trump will defend Israel. So, the Anti Jews are running out of time. It is now or never because they don't know how long it will be before the next Jew hater like Obama will be elected President or if there ever will be another one.


January 15th: 70 Nations Will Gather In Paris To Discuss The Future Of Israel
Read more at http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/articl ... mTx63L6.99

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On January 15th, representatives from 70 different countries will gather in Paris, France for an unprecedented global conference. The stated goal of this conference is to promote a "two-state solution" as the way that lasting peace will be brought to the Middle East.

In Israel, there is a tremendous amount of concern that whatever is agreed upon at this conference will immediately be used as the basis for a UN Security Council resolution that would permanently divide the land of Israel and create a Palestinian state.

But things would have to move very rapidly in order for that to happen, because Barack Obama's time in the White House comes to an end on January 20th, and Donald Trump has already made it exceedingly clear that he would never support such a resolution.

The UN Security Council resolution that was passed on Friday was one of the most significant events that we have witnessed in decades. Resolution 2334 made all Israeli settlements in the West Bank and in East Jerusalem illegal, it set the 1967 ceasefire lines as the border between the Israelis and the Palestinians, and it granted every single inch of East Jerusalem to the Palestinians.

But it stopped short of giving official UN Security Council recognition to a Palestinian state, and that is why this conference on January 15th is so important.

The Israeli government is reportedly fearful that any guidelines agreed in Paris would be turned into another UN resolution before Trump's inauguration.

A spokesman for Netanyahu claimed to have "ironclad evidence" that the Obama administration had plotted behind the scenes to promote the UN resolution. Israel has said it will present evidence against the Obama administration to the incoming Trump team.

If what an Egyptian newspaper is claiming is true, then there may very well be an international conspiracy at work against Israel. According to a transcript published by the Al-Youm Al-Sabea newspaper, John Kerry and U.S. National Security Adviser Susan Rice met with Palestinian officials in early December and presented Kerry's plan to them at that time...

In a meeting in early December with top Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat, US Secretary of State John Kerry told the Palestinians that the US was prepared to cooperate with the Palestinians at the Security council, Israel's Channel 1 TV said, quoting the Egyptian Al-Youm Al-Sabea newspaper.

Also present at the meeting were US National Security Adviser Susan Rice, and Majed Faraj, director of the Palestinian Authority's General Intelligence Service.

Kerry is quoted as saying that he could present his ideas for a final status solution if the Palestinians pledge they will support the proposed framework. The US officials advised the Palestinians to travel to Riyadh to present the plan to Saudi leaders.

The Obama administration is denying all of this of course. But if it is true, then the betrayal of Israel by Obama is much deeper than any of us realized.

With less than a month to go in his presidency, Barack Obama has decided to launch an all-out attack on Israel. Once Resolution 2334 passed and the uproar against it was limited, that emboldened the Obama administration to go for broke.

Now it looks like they actually could try to get a Palestinian state created before he leaves office on January 20th, and if that happens it will be absolutely catastrophic for America.

You see, the truth is that we have been warned for many years that our land will be divided after the land of Israel is officially divided into two states. Many of us have been watching for the creation of a Palestinian state for a very long time, and now we may be right on the verge of it happening.

When Donald Trump takes office he would not be able to reverse the creation of a Palestinian state, but one thing that he could do would be to move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem.

If that happens, the Palestinians are promising to throw a massive temper tantrum...

When asked how the Palestinians would react if Trump carried out his promise to move the US embassy to Jerusalem, Erekat reportedly said the Palestine Liberation Organization would rescind its recognition of Israel and ask Arab states to expel their US envoys.

Erekat made precisely that threat in a December 19 conference call organized by the Wilson Center policy forum. He said he would immediately resign as the chief Palestinian negotiator, and that "the PLO will revoke its recognition of Israel" as well as all previously signed agreements with Israel.

Furthermore, said Erekat, all American embassies in the Arab world would be forced to close -- not necessarily because Arab leaderships would want to close them, but because the infuriated public in the Arab world would not "allow" for the embassies to continue to operate.

Ultimately, everything that is happening now is setting the stage for the biggest war in the Middle East that we have ever seen.

So instead of this "peace process" being the solution, it is actually going to cause the Middle East to explode in violence.


December 30th, 2016, 11:40 am
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
Hey, can you send me all your money? If the world's ending soon, you don't need it.


December 31st, 2016, 6:24 am
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
Blueskies wrote:
Hey, can you send me all your money? If the world's ending soon, you don't need it.


Laugh if you want. I am putting it out here. I can't make you believe. I am not even trying to make you believe. This article tells us about a very important meeting taking place on the 15th. 5 days before Obama leaves office, in regards to Israel. A nation the Muslim in chief hates with every fiber of his being. The War of Gog and Magog might not result from this meeting. But, I guarantee you this: NOT 1 DAMN THING THAT COMES OUT OF THIS MEETING WILL BE GOOD FOR ISRAEL!!!!!!


December 31st, 2016, 11:16 am
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Post Re: The War of Gog and Magog...Revisited.
And, if the War of Gog and Magog does result from this meeting, maybe you will believe when you see it because you were forewarned.


December 31st, 2016, 11:19 am
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