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 Draft Day Thread - Round 3 
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Team MVP

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Post Re: Draft Day Thread - Round 3
My thoughts...

Pick 1 - Ragnarok filled the only slot on the OL that wasn't filled by a Quinn pick or signing. For years, we always hammered the GM's for not building an OL, and here Quinn does it in 3 years and we're still not happy. The line worked better when Glasgow was at center than Swanson, so a change was necessary. Whether they start Ragnorok at guard or center is up in the air, as long as it gets the run game going

Pick 2 - Johnson is a north-south runner, but if you watch the film, he makes a lot of short quick cuts. He put up 100 yards against Alabama and not many did. With Blount, they can limit his workload, but think about a punishing run game where you can swap two strong backs to keep it going without overusing either.

Pick 3 - Walker is probably a free safety. He's also a hitter and in today's league, you need more than two safeties. Think of the matchup probems we've consistently had with opposing TE's and especially the matchup problems NE caused with Gronk. You can't move your best cover CB to the TE slot in those situations or you risk being hurt by the WRs. He's a 4.5 guy, so this allows them to have Quinn, Diggs and Walker on the field and can mask who is covering who and who come up in the box. Quinn is also 32, so having someone that can learn from him isn't a bad thing.

Pick 4 - Hand is intriguing. He's next to Robinson again, and with Davis coaching the DL, combined with Patricia's hand in his development, the continuity is something not many players get. Can play inside, similar to how Hyder and Zettle do, but he's the better player. Will be interesting to see.

Pick 5 - Crosby was a steal here. Versatile and like Ragnarok, didn't give up a single sack last year. Can play tackle or guard so even if depth this year, the OL won't have the issues if injuries pop up like last year. F' Greg Robinson

Pick 6 - You can say no one drafts FBs, but when you're consistently as bad as we have been in the run game, grabbing the guy that blocked for the NCAA's leading rusher isn't a bad selection with a 7th rounder. UDFA have a choice of places, 7th round guarantees them for 3 years. Bawden was a QB, wanted to play B and got up to 250lbs to block. He'll play ST and make some holes for the RBs as well as give Stafford extra protection in obvious passing situations.


April 29th, 2018, 4:16 am
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Post Re: Draft Day Thread - Round 3
Yet another trade with the Pats?! Someone in the day two thread said Quinn's love of trading with the Pats showed he is following a winning philosophy. I can't say I agree. If you're on the other end of a trade with the Pats it means you're doing the precise opposite of them.

The Pats know that no matter how good your scouting, the draft has an element of the lottery to it, and the more tickets the higher your chance of winning. Quinn went into the draft with limited capital (tied for least number of picks in the NFL) and astoundingly traded up twice. He'll go into next year's draft with limited capital again.

What seems most frustrating to me about it is when combined with the approach to FA. Quinn made no big moves, leaving significant holes on the team, and it looked like a rebuilding year, especially with the rest of the North upgrading significantly. Then in the draft we go the opposite route. I don't get it.

I also think all the transactions with the Pats speaks to a major lack of confidence on Quinn's part. He only feels able to pull the trigger on trades, and coaching staff changes, with people he knows.

The selection of the tackle I like. The rest of the draft, I don't.

I hope I'm wrong, that Ragnow and Johnson fix the run game (which in turn helps the pass game and unleashes a top tier offense) and that Patricia works his magic on a defense that's received little investment. But I am not feeling very confident on the back of this off season, nor very confident for the future with Quinn.


April 29th, 2018, 6:05 am
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Post Re: Draft Day Thread - Round 3
Outside of the first round I didn't like the draft much while it was happening, but when I see it as a whole it looks more solid. I was not a fan of the way Quinn navigated the draft this year. I prefer what he did last draft, just staying put or moving down and taking what was in front of him. I like the players he drafted and if they end up living up to their draft slot I'll change my opinion on the strategy. It seems like Quinn and Patricia feel the team is close. With this draft the offense does look complete, they are just missing an additional TE to take over for Wilson after his one year deal ends. The defense is such a big question mark. If we are going by what Austin was doing last season then the defense is swiss cheese after this off season, but I think Patricia's system of building a defense may be so different that it could be a nice middle of the road defense.


April 29th, 2018, 10:18 am
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Post Re: Draft Day Thread - Round 3
UK Lion wrote:
Yet another trade with the Pats?! Someone in the day two thread said Quinn's love of trading with the Pats showed he is following a winning philosophy. I can't say I agree. If you're on the other end of a trade with the Pats it means you're doing the precise opposite of them.

The Pats know that no matter how good your scouting, the draft has an element of the lottery to it, and the more tickets the higher your chance of winning. Quinn went into the draft with limited capital (tied for least number of picks in the NFL) and astoundingly traded up twice. He'll go into next year's draft with limited capital again.

What seems most frustrating to me about it is when combined with the approach to FA. Quinn made no big moves, leaving significant holes on the team, and it looked like a rebuilding year, especially with the rest of the North upgrading significantly. Then in the draft we go the opposite route. I don't get it.

I also think all the transactions with the Pats speaks to a major lack of confidence on Quinn's part. He only feels able to pull the trigger on trades, and coaching staff changes, with people he knows.

The selection of the tackle I like. The rest of the draft, I don't.

I hope I'm wrong, that Ragnow and Johnson fix the run game (which in turn helps the pass game and unleashes a top tier offense) and that Patricia works his magic on a defense that's received little investment. But I am not feeling very confident on the back of this off season, nor very confident for the future with Quinn.


Disagree.
Overall, I believe it was a successful draft, but we won't know for several years. I feel you really have to hand it to Quinn for sticking to his guns and continuing to build the offensive line of scrimmage. I had hopes of a defensive draft. Wasn't to be. The move into​ the fourth for Hand was a nice addition they felt good about, or they wouldn't have done it. I'm all for adding to the defensive line. As for giving up future draft capital to do it, I hate to see it go, but that's the chances you sometimes take. Next year's third will seem worth it if it pans out, and we have an extra fifth and sixth next year from previous trades.
We actually got four top 100 players through five rounds if you look at some of the pre-draft big boards. Not a bad haul.
This is Quinn's third draft, I believe it's a little early to be kicking dirt. After all, we suffered through nine year's of Mayhew's draft day ineptitude, not to mention the idiot that preceded him.


April 29th, 2018, 10:42 am
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Post Re: Draft Day Thread - Round 3
liontrax wrote:
UK Lion wrote:
Yet another trade with the Pats?! Someone in the day two thread said Quinn's love of trading with the Pats showed he is following a winning philosophy. I can't say I agree. If you're on the other end of a trade with the Pats it means you're doing the precise opposite of them.

The Pats know that no matter how good your scouting, the draft has an element of the lottery to it, and the more tickets the higher your chance of winning. Quinn went into the draft with limited capital (tied for least number of picks in the NFL) and astoundingly traded up twice. He'll go into next year's draft with limited capital again.

What seems most frustrating to me about it is when combined with the approach to FA. Quinn made no big moves, leaving significant holes on the team, and it looked like a rebuilding year, especially with the rest of the North upgrading significantly. Then in the draft we go the opposite route. I don't get it.

I also think all the transactions with the Pats speaks to a major lack of confidence on Quinn's part. He only feels able to pull the trigger on trades, and coaching staff changes, with people he knows.

The selection of the tackle I like. The rest of the draft, I don't.

I hope I'm wrong, that Ragnow and Johnson fix the run game (which in turn helps the pass game and unleashes a top tier offense) and that Patricia works his magic on a defense that's received little investment. But I am not feeling very confident on the back of this off season, nor very confident for the future with Quinn.


Disagree.
Overall, I believe it was a successful draft, but we won't know for several years. I feel you really have to hand it to Quinn for sticking to his guns and continuing to build the offensive line of scrimmage. I had hopes of a defensive draft. Wasn't to be. The move into​ the fourth for Hand was a nice addition they felt good about, or they wouldn't have done it. I'm all for adding to the defensive line. As for giving up future draft capital to do it, I hate to see it go, but that's the chances you sometimes take. Next year's third will seem worth it if it pans out, and we have an extra fifth and sixth next year from previous trades.
We actually got four top 100 players through five rounds if you look at some of the pre-draft big boards. Not a bad haul.
This is Quinn's third draft, I believe it's a little early to be kicking dirt. After all, we suffered through nine year's of Mayhew's draft day ineptitude, not to mention the idiot that preceded him.


And we can easily recover a new 3rd round pick in next years draft simply by trading down 4 or 5 spots in the 1st round.


April 29th, 2018, 11:44 am
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Post Re: Draft Day Thread - Round 3
BillySims wrote:
liontrax wrote:
UK Lion wrote:
Yet another trade with the Pats?! Someone in the day two thread said Quinn's love of trading with the Pats showed he is following a winning philosophy. I can't say I agree. If you're on the other end of a trade with the Pats it means you're doing the precise opposite of them.

The Pats know that no matter how good your scouting, the draft has an element of the lottery to it, and the more tickets the higher your chance of winning. Quinn went into the draft with limited capital (tied for least number of picks in the NFL) and astoundingly traded up twice. He'll go into next year's draft with limited capital again.

What seems most frustrating to me about it is when combined with the approach to FA. Quinn made no big moves, leaving significant holes on the team, and it looked like a rebuilding year, especially with the rest of the North upgrading significantly. Then in the draft we go the opposite route. I don't get it.

I also think all the transactions with the Pats speaks to a major lack of confidence on Quinn's part. He only feels able to pull the trigger on trades, and coaching staff changes, with people he knows.

The selection of the tackle I like. The rest of the draft, I don't.

I hope I'm wrong, that Ragnow and Johnson fix the run game (which in turn helps the pass game and unleashes a top tier offense) and that Patricia works his magic on a defense that's received little investment. But I am not feeling very confident on the back of this off season, nor very confident for the future with Quinn.


Disagree.
Overall, I believe it was a successful draft, but we won't know for several years. I feel you really have to hand it to Quinn for sticking to his guns and continuing to build the offensive line of scrimmage. I had hopes of a defensive draft. Wasn't to be. The move into​ the fourth for Hand was a nice addition they felt good about, or they wouldn't have done it. I'm all for adding to the defensive line. As for giving up future draft capital to do it, I hate to see it go, but that's the chances you sometimes take. Next year's third will seem worth it if it pans out, and we have an extra fifth and sixth next year from previous trades.
We actually got four top 100 players through five rounds if you look at some of the pre-draft big boards. Not a bad haul.
This is Quinn's third draft, I believe it's a little early to be kicking dirt. After all, we suffered through nine year's of Mayhew's draft day ineptitude, not to mention the idiot that preceded him.


And we can easily recover a new 3rd round pick in next years draft simply by trading down 4 or 5 spots in the 1st round.


We could also recover it by trading a rb... We started with 5 picks, ended with 6. Start with 8 picks for next season already (6 without the 3rd, plus extra 5th and 6th) so we have picks to work with/move around. We don't even know if we'll get any comp picks, but not having any last few seasons.


April 29th, 2018, 12:03 pm
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Post Re: Draft Day Thread - Round 3
Rd 1 - C Frank Ragnow - Big strong, mauling interior lineman. Whether he plays center or guard is up in the air bc Glasgow's best position might actually be center. If thats the case then they might have done better picking Wynn or Hernandez. At center Ragnow is a better power blocker than Daniels who went to the Bears but Daniels is probably the better athlete. Something to watch going forward. Quinn and the rest of Detroit are sick of seeing Matthew Stafford in near death mode or the team dropping games like the Sunday night game vs Pittsburgh bc they cant rush for a tough yard. I think Ragnow could be their best Center since Kevin Glover but Daniels looks like he would have been too and there were opportunities to trade back (not a rumor - thats from Bob Quinn) and get more out of this draft. At guard he s probably just a solid starter. Either way he plugs a spot that was a weakness and likely makes it average if not into a strength on his first contract and that improves the team.

Rd 2 - RB Kerryon Johnson - This is the pick that makes or breaks the Lions draft. Quinn telegraphed that he was going to be taking a runner high and then was so nervous someone was going to jump in front of them that he essentially coughed up his 2019 3rd round pick to move up 8 spots for this pick. I didnt know much about Johnson so I ve watched a lot of his game tape since they picked him up. There are some good things - he has a quick jump cut to make the first man miss, good acceleration, does a nice job setting up and reading his blocks, and uses a stiff arm to extend runs. Despite the quick acceleration he really doesnt run with much power nor does he have exceptional elusiveness or explosiveness. He will run into a wall for you but he doesnt move the pile or break many tackles. I have concerns bc his frame is small and he doesnt appear to be really all that dynamic. Ive read comparisons - Leveon Bell, Tevin Coleman that dont seem totally right. For me he looks like former Lion Kevin Smith with more suddenness, a little more power and probably less creativity or Demarco Murray but with less power and speed. I think he s an upgrade for the Lions with a complete skill set that gives there run game a chance at credibility but probably not a star player.

Rd 3 - Tracy Walker DB - Looks like a safety that could help in coverage. Has decent size, Im not sure enough to cover the bigger tight ends but maybe bigger possession receivers. I could see him projecting to either safety position in the future where as someone like Killebrew almost would have to be a strong safety.

Rd 4 - Da'Shawn Hand DL - Has the versatility to play DE or DT so thats why he fits but probably better as a 3-4 DE than a classic 4-3 DE. The Lions will have elements of both so maybe he rushes from inside from a 4 man line and is a run defender lined up outside the guard or head up on the tackle in 3-4 looks. He s the man on paper but they ll have to motivate him to really learn the game and be a professional.

Rd 5 - Tyrell Crosby OT - He could be a good power blocker but needs to get into better shape and improve his footwork. I dont think he can be relied on as a RT in pass protection at this point but probably could if Davidson is a decent coach. Might be more comfortbale using him inside early in his career. Also has injury histories but will have a chance to be a key reserve this year if the injury bug bites Lang, Decker and Wagner again.

Rd 6 - none

Rd 7 - Nick Bawden FB - Looks like the Lions are bringing back the FB position rather than use LBs and DEs to fill in. Regarded highly as a blocker, has a chance to make the team and fits the theme of the Lions draft.


April 29th, 2018, 12:59 pm
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Post Re: Draft Day Thread - Round 3
Just to play a little devil s advocate

Quote:
Pick 1 - Ragnarok filled the only slot on the OL that wasn't filled by a Quinn pick or signing. For years, we always hammered the GM's for not building an OL, and here Quinn does it in 3 years and we're still not happy. The line worked better when Glasgow was at center than Swanson, so a change was necessary. Whether they start Ragnorok at guard or center is up in the air, as long as it gets the run game going


Looks like we got the opposite extreme. A GM going big to help the OL - so far little progress on the field. QB still nearer to death than a division title while on the field. Most were hoping that Quinn coming from the Patriots had superior scouting skills and acumen and could build a competent line without exhausting major capital particularly at the interior spots, like most teams do. Quinn signed Lang and Wagner for big money but the line actually got worse from 2016 to 2017 a lot of that was because Taylor Decker was hurt but so was Lang while Wagner was mostly disappointing and did not appear to be better than Reiff. Decker in his return from injury wasnt the same player. To say that the rest of the line is set and that Ragnow is the final piece only works on paper. There was a major need at C but Quinn doesnt get a pass bc the line's he s built have not actually been better despite using big resources. I like the player though Quinn couldve done better if he played his cards differently.

Quote:
Pick 2 - Johnson is a north-south runner, but if you watch the film, he makes a lot of short quick cuts. He put up 100 yards against Alabama and not many did. With Blount, they can limit his workload, but think about a punishing run game where you can swap two strong backs to keep it going without overusing either.


I dont see him as punishing runner, he could be good and he ll battle but defenders wont be scared of contact with him. He had 100 yards vs Bama but it really wasnt that impressive as it was on 30 carries. He hit a couple of seams for a two or three 10-15 yard runs and was decent at making the "overpenetrating first defender" miss a couple times but most of it was just the volume, he wasnt moving piles definitely not "punishing" anyone. Stafford deserved getting a chance to play with some semblance of a running game supporting him, its good that Quinn finally is on board with that idea.

Quote:
Pick 3 - Walker is probably a free safety. He's also a hitter and in today's league, you need more than two safeties. Think of the matchup probems we've consistently had with opposing TE's and especially the matchup problems NE caused with Gronk. You can't move your best cover CB to the TE slot in those situations or you risk being hurt by the WRs. He's a 4.5 guy, so this allows them to have Quinn, Diggs and Walker on the field and can mask who is covering who and who come up in the box. Quinn is also 32, so having someone that can learn from him isn't a bad thing.


Its been a few years of not being able to cover the tight ends. He can be useful but the Packers and Vikings are licking their chops if this is the guy whose going to be covering Graham or Rudolph twice a year. Im hoping its Davis who steps up and does better with that assignment. I agree with you that the versatility should be an asset, will help them disguise coverages but he doesnt profile as a classic free safety either although a better fit there than someone like Killebrew. They had no problem letting Tabor sit and watch I would think Walker gets sprinkled into some special teams units and gets his feet wet here and there on defense in a Don Carey like role.

Quote:
Pick 4 - Hand is intriguing. He's next to Robinson again, and with Davis coaching the DL, combined with Patricia's hand in his development, the continuity is something not many players get. Can play inside, similar to how Hyder and Zettle do, but he's the better player. Will be interesting to see.


I think Hand was intriguing but really didnt live up to much of it which kind of makes me think he s being drafted based on high school hype and the school he played for in college. If he becomes better than Zettel than its a great pick but I dont see the comparison. Zettel looked like a bag of bones who hustled and then really changed his body last offseason while improving quickness. I dont think the team has given him enough credit for how hard he s worked. I dont foresee that
Zettel is going to be playing inside a whole lot either. Hyder to me is just a smoke and mirrors act that is probably over. Maybe Bo Davis is the secret with this one but Maurice Hurst would ve been a nice pick and made more sense coughing up the 3rd rd pick for.

Quote:
Pick 5 - Crosby was a steal here. Versatile and like Ragnarok, didn't give up a single sack last year. Can play tackle or guard so even if depth this year, the OL won't have the issues if injuries pop up like last year. F' Greg Robinson


Except he gets banged up a lot too. If they just like maulers rather than guys that have some athleticism which is what it seems than its a good pick here. I dont think his feet are so exceptional like the scouting reports but I like it in that here s a 5th rounder who can backup your right tackle or guards and maybe comes in as an extra blocker on the edge in certain packages. Dont want to see guys like Cleary and Kerin hit the field for us again this year.

Quote:
Pick 6 - You can say no one drafts FBs, but when you're consistently as bad as we have been in the run game, grabbing the guy that blocked for the NCAA's leading rusher isn't a bad selection with a 7th rounder. UDFA have a choice of places, 7th round guarantees them for 3 years. Bawden was a QB, wanted to play B and got up to 250lbs to block. He'll play ST and make some holes for the RBs as well as give Stafford extra protection in obvious passing situations.


Cant fault this one. Maybe shows Quinn realizing how wrong the Lions (whether it was BQ himself or the coaching staff) as a whole were last year with the run game and the direction they were taking it. Johnson had some good runs with and without a fullback leading the way so I still wonder if Bawden makes the team.


April 29th, 2018, 2:30 pm
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Post Re: Draft Day Thread - Round 3
rao wrote:
Outside of the first round I didn't like the draft much while it was happening, but when I see it as a whole it looks more solid. I was not a fan of the way Quinn navigated the draft this year. I prefer what he did last draft, just staying put or moving down and taking what was in front of him. I like the players he drafted and if they end up living up to their draft slot I'll change my opinion on the strategy. It seems like Quinn and Patricia feel the team is close. With this draft the offense does look complete, they are just missing an additional TE to take over for Wilson after his one year deal ends. The defense is such a big question mark. If we are going by what Austin was doing last season then the defense is swiss cheese after this off season, but I think Patricia's system of building a defense may be so different that it could be a nice middle of the road defense.


Curious as to your thoughts on Johnson who I think makes or breaks how this draft will be remembered.


April 29th, 2018, 2:34 pm
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Post Re: Draft Day Thread - Round 3
The Legend wrote:
Just to play a little devil s advocate

Quote:
Pick 1 - Ragnarok filled the only slot on the OL that wasn't filled by a Quinn pick or signing. For years, we always hammered the GM's for not building an OL, and here Quinn does it in 3 years and we're still not happy. The line worked better when Glasgow was at center than Swanson, so a change was necessary. Whether they start Ragnorok at guard or center is up in the air, as long as it gets the run game going


Looks like we got the opposite extreme. A GM going big to help the OL - so far little progress on the field. QB still nearer to death than a division title while on the field. Most were hoping that Quinn coming from the Patriots had superior scouting skills and acumen and could build a competent line without exhausting major capital particularly at the interior spots, like most teams do. Quinn signed Lang and Wagner for big money but the line actually got worse from 2016 to 2017 a lot of that was because Taylor Decker was hurt but so was Lang while Wagner was mostly disappointing and did not appear to be better than Reiff. Decker in his return from injury wasnt the same player. To say that the rest of the line is set and that Ragnow is the final piece only works on paper. There was a major need at C but Quinn doesnt get a pass bc the line's he s built have not actually been better despite using big resources. I like the player though Quinn couldve done better if he played his cards differently.

Quote:
Pick 2 - Johnson is a north-south runner, but if you watch the film, he makes a lot of short quick cuts. He put up 100 yards against Alabama and not many did. With Blount, they can limit his workload, but think about a punishing run game where you can swap two strong backs to keep it going without overusing either.


I dont see him as punishing runner, he could be good and he ll battle but defenders wont be scared of contact with him. He had 100 yards vs Bama but it really wasnt that impressive as it was on 30 carries. He hit a couple of seams for a two or three 10-15 yard runs and was decent at making the "overpenetrating first defender" miss a couple times but most of it was just the volume, he wasnt moving piles definitely not "punishing" anyone. Stafford deserved getting a chance to play with some semblance of a running game supporting him, its good that Quinn finally is on board with that idea.

Quote:
Pick 3 - Walker is probably a free safety. He's also a hitter and in today's league, you need more than two safeties. Think of the matchup probems we've consistently had with opposing TE's and especially the matchup problems NE caused with Gronk. You can't move your best cover CB to the TE slot in those situations or you risk being hurt by the WRs. He's a 4.5 guy, so this allows them to have Quinn, Diggs and Walker on the field and can mask who is covering who and who come up in the box. Quinn is also 32, so having someone that can learn from him isn't a bad thing.


Its been a few years of not being able to cover the tight ends. He can be useful but the Packers and Vikings are licking their chops if this is the guy whose going to be covering Graham or Rudolph twice a year. Im hoping its Davis who steps up and does better with that assignment. I agree with you that the versatility should be an asset, will help them disguise coverages but he doesnt profile as a classic free safety either although a better fit there than someone like Killebrew. They had no problem letting Tabor sit and watch I would think Walker gets sprinkled into some special teams units and gets his feet wet here and there on defense in a Don Carey like role.

Quote:
Pick 4 - Hand is intriguing. He's next to Robinson again, and with Davis coaching the DL, combined with Patricia's hand in his development, the continuity is something not many players get. Can play inside, similar to how Hyder and Zettle do, but he's the better player. Will be interesting to see.


I think Hand was intriguing but really didnt live up to much of it which kind of makes me think he s being drafted based on high school hype and the school he played for in college. If he becomes better than Zettel than its a great pick but I dont see the comparison. Zettel looked like a bag of bones who hustled and then really changed his body last offseason while improving quickness. I dont think the team has given him enough credit for how hard he s worked. I dont foresee that
Zettel is going to be playing inside a whole lot either. Hyder to me is just a smoke and mirrors act that is probably over. Maybe Bo Davis is the secret with this one but Maurice Hurst would ve been a nice pick and made more sense coughing up the 3rd rd pick for.

Quote:
Pick 5 - Crosby was a steal here. Versatile and like Ragnarok, didn't give up a single sack last year. Can play tackle or guard so even if depth this year, the OL won't have the issues if injuries pop up like last year. F' Greg Robinson


Except he gets banged up a lot too. If they just like maulers rather than guys that have some athleticism which is what it seems than its a good pick here. I dont think his feet are so exceptional like the scouting reports but I like it in that here s a 5th rounder who can backup your right tackle or guards and maybe comes in as an extra blocker on the edge in certain packages. Dont want to see guys like Cleary and Kerin hit the field for us again this year.

Quote:
Pick 6 - You can say no one drafts FBs, but when you're consistently as bad as we have been in the run game, grabbing the guy that blocked for the NCAA's leading rusher isn't a bad selection with a 7th rounder. UDFA have a choice of places, 7th round guarantees them for 3 years. Bawden was a QB, wanted to play B and got up to 250lbs to block. He'll play ST and make some holes for the RBs as well as give Stafford extra protection in obvious passing situations.


Cant fault this one. Maybe shows Quinn realizing how wrong the Lions (whether it was BQ himself or the coaching staff) as a whole were last year with the run game and the direction they were taking it. Johnson had some good runs with and without a fullback leading the way so I still wonder if Bawden makes the team.


I think the major issue with the OL was injuries. Decker going down forced the Greg Robinson trade and that just set everything back. Caldwell had never put together a decent running system anyway. When Decker came back, the right side was hurt so I think as long as the major pieces stay healthy, they'll have a chance to improve in the running game. That running game changes everything. Defense is less winded which improves them as well. And IF an injury hits, you have pieces to move around. Crosby you say has poor footwork, but to his credit, he still was the best tackle in the Pac12 and protected his QB.

I agree Johnson won't punish on a run to run basis. Blount doesn't either. They punish you by constanty hitting that wall. We've used small backs to try to run around the line and now they can run into it. That physical play punishes the D over the course of an entire game, not in a single run. We're the black and blue division and finess runner only worked with Barry.

If Davis thought he couldn't live up to potential, I'm sure he would have spoken up. Being his coach at for the past few years gave him the best look at him. One thing I've caught myself doing wrong when watching tape is paying too much attention to outcomes. Sure they're nice when it goes right, but i have to go back and look at actions for a true picture. What was the assignment?, did the player do what he was supposed to do?, etc.. Technique is often on coaches, the assignments are coaching & execution. Since we're blind to a lot of the assignment aspects, we and the media a lot of times are misreading how the players are ranked internally. That's why there's so many ??? when people end up left on the board or they're picked rounds earlier than expected.

There's always questions marks with a draft. We're the Lions. I think most of us wanted more defense, but I can see what they are thinking with this draft. I like that we stole players other teams wanted instead of them always stealing them before us. I think we'll see 4-3 looks, but it won't be our base defense except against certain teams. I think with a strong secondary and an improved middle, we'll see more zone blitzing and mixed sets to get a pass rush. And if the running game can extend the clock, our defense can stay fresher than the other team's defense and we can pull away later in game or hold a lead. Even with same personnel, the dynamic has changed. The direction has changed. That's what has me optimistic.


April 29th, 2018, 3:25 pm
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Joined: November 28th, 2007, 12:50 pm
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Post Re: Draft Day Thread - Round 3
The Legend wrote:
rao wrote:
Outside of the first round I didn't like the draft much while it was happening, but when I see it as a whole it looks more solid. I was not a fan of the way Quinn navigated the draft this year. I prefer what he did last draft, just staying put or moving down and taking what was in front of him. I like the players he drafted and if they end up living up to their draft slot I'll change my opinion on the strategy. It seems like Quinn and Patricia feel the team is close. With this draft the offense does look complete, they are just missing an additional TE to take over for Wilson after his one year deal ends. The defense is such a big question mark. If we are going by what Austin was doing last season then the defense is swiss cheese after this off season, but I think Patricia's system of building a defense may be so different that it could be a nice middle of the road defense.


Curious as to your thoughts on Johnson who I think makes or breaks how this draft will be remembered.


I don't really know what to think of Johnson. Never seen him play and I have seen a lot of conflicting scouting reports on him. I like his athletic profile, he looks to have good speed and acceleration. I like that he has a SS skill set with FS athletic ability, IMO it gives him a high ceiling if he develops the technical skills. I would say he also has a very low floor if some of the reports are accurate. I do think the "reach" label is overblown, he may not have the level of competition as some of the other safeties that were available, but those guys weren't standouts in my eyes. I don't think the draft will be remembered just on what happens with him. It's more about Ragnow because if he is a pro bowler no one will even care about Johnson, but if Ragnow is forgettable or a bust then Johnson becomes the next thing everyone will look at.

Overall I would have liked to see them draft a player I was more familiar with, but with how similar this pick is in my mind to the Golladay pick last draft, I give Quinn the benefit of the doubt.


April 29th, 2018, 3:36 pm
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Joined: October 24th, 2005, 6:23 am
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Post Re: Draft Day Thread - Round 3
I actually liked this draft, at least in the end. Wasn't real happy with the trade ups, but as has been pointed out over the years; you know what player you are going to get moving up unlike the total crap shoot of moving back. Although, I do like the idea of moving back and acquiring more picks if for no other reason than to use them to trade up to get a player you really want. However, that usually requires having a pretty solid roster so you aren't chasing needs so much. That ain't us. Yet.

I didn't get to have this draft my way so I'm not going to call it anything more than good. You can all be happy that it wasn't me making the calls because I didn't pay all that much attention. I lack the expertise, the time and the resources to scout the team let alone all of the potential picks. I rely on the talking heads to give me an overview and then I have to wait for two or three years to see if the player(s) pans out.

What is more important to me is that there seems to be a coherent strategy behind the draft. Quinn seems to demonstrate that and he did it again with this draft. Quinn seems to seek the smart, good character (dependable) players with versatility in regards to needs; immediate and 2 or 3 years down the road. The problem I have had with other Lions GM's drafts is there has been too little focus on the player and too much on the talent and position and almost always for the immediate need. Everyone drafts talent. The trouble is that talent that doesn't know what it is suppose to be doing, where it is suppose to do it and when it is suppose to do it on a consistent basis doesn't do you much good. Then there is the problem of losing the ones you have in a year or two that you have to plan for that has been lacking for so long. We have been constantly building rather than at a point of reloading. It is taking time, but I see it happening.


April 29th, 2018, 11:04 pm
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Veteran NFL Head Coach

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
Posts: 5081
Location: WSU
Post Re: Draft Day Thread - Round 3
rao wrote:
The Legend wrote:
rao wrote:
Outside of the first round I didn't like the draft much while it was happening, but when I see it as a whole it looks more solid. I was not a fan of the way Quinn navigated the draft this year. I prefer what he did last draft, just staying put or moving down and taking what was in front of him. I like the players he drafted and if they end up living up to their draft slot I'll change my opinion on the strategy. It seems like Quinn and Patricia feel the team is close. With this draft the offense does look complete, they are just missing an additional TE to take over for Wilson after his one year deal ends. The defense is such a big question mark. If we are going by what Austin was doing last season then the defense is swiss cheese after this off season, but I think Patricia's system of building a defense may be so different that it could be a nice middle of the road defense.


Curious as to your thoughts on Johnson who I think makes or breaks how this draft will be remembered.


I don't really know what to think of Johnson. Never seen him play and I have seen a lot of conflicting scouting reports on him. I like his athletic profile, he looks to have good speed and acceleration. I like that he has a SS skill set with FS athletic ability, IMO it gives him a high ceiling if he develops the technical skills. I would say he also has a very low floor if some of the reports are accurate. I do think the "reach" label is overblown, he may not have the level of competition as some of the other safeties that were available, but those guys weren't standouts in my eyes. I don't think the draft will be remembered just on what happens with him. It's more about Ragnow because if he is a pro bowler no one will even care about Johnson, but if Ragnow is forgettable or a bust then Johnson becomes the next thing everyone will look at.

Overall I would have liked to see them draft a player I was more familiar with, but with how similar this pick is in my mind to the Golladay pick last draft, I give Quinn the benefit of the doubt.


sorry i was talking about the RB Kerryon Johnson...Im not sure what to make of Walker either you I think you were describing.


April 29th, 2018, 11:44 pm
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Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: November 28th, 2007, 12:50 pm
Posts: 2360
Location: Newport Beach, Ca
Post Re: Draft Day Thread - Round 3
The Legend wrote:
sorry i was talking about the RB Kerryon Johnson...Im not sure what to make of Walker either you I think you were describing.


Damn I keep getting the last names reversed for those 2. I like Johnson as a player, not a fan of the trade up. I didn't look at him much until he was drafted. I like his running style, it seems patient and a little sneaky at times with the way he slips through holes. Also looks deceptively fast where he can hit an extra gear at the end of runs. I am concerned with the heavy usage he had in college, but I think the Lions will split carries enough to keep him healthy. I can absolutely see the potential in him to be a difference maker and solution to the Lions running problems. I can also see a Fred Taylor type who is very good, but is always injured.


April 30th, 2018, 1:19 am
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