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 Tate a goner? 
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Joined: October 19th, 2005, 1:24 pm
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Post Re: Tate a goner?
The Legend wrote:
rao wrote:
Nice value for an 8 game rental. Glad to see a move being made that is all business with no sentimentality. Quinn has been effective in the 3rd round of the draft and they could really use a young talent at TE. Losing Tate is a noticeable loss for this season, but there are guys on the roster that can fill in adequately as a committee for that slot spot. TJ Jones was good last year and has filled in as the 3rd guy plenty of times since he was drafted, this season could improve for him with more playtime. This could also lead to some dual HB sets with Riddick and Johnson that could be interesting. I think Powell could turn out to be something now that he should be able to get game time against starting level players for the rest of the season. It also means he should be active and the Lions can avoid letting Abdullah ever carry the ball again.


Its not sentimentality, Quinn is giving up on yet another season when his team is right there. Is he ever going to go for it? Its like he s striving for mediocrity and just hoping the Lions will "run into one" one of these years. Hopefully we will start seeing some chips go on the table.

Having made a coaching change specifically because this roster was apparently good enough, but the previous coaching staff were not getting them over the hump, it makes no sense at all to then make this roster worse for a future pick (that in reality, will just accelerate a pick one year).

rao: how does losing Tate this year make this team better for this season? It doesn't, it clearly makes it worse. If the Lions were 7-0 do you think Quinn makes this trade? It's clearly him saying this seasons is not going to be a SB season, so better to build for future years. Which makes everything he said back in Jan nonsense (which we all knew it was anyway).


November 1st, 2018, 5:21 am
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Post Re: Tate a goner?
Anytime a new coaching staff is brought in, there's going to be changes. Just because the team was not as good as it should have been, doesn't mean it was just as good the following season. There's always too much turnover year to year to expect the same results.

The more I thought about it, the more I see this as a move to get KJ the ball more, not another receiver. Yes, it allows Riddick to be on the field without bringing KJ off, but everyone's been arguing for KJ to be on the field more, and this does that.

I liked Tate. I liked the excitement he'd bring, I loved his YAC. I hated how he gave up on plays. I hated how when he gave up on plays, it trickled to other players doing the same. Effort and hustle is contagious. So is lack of it. He was already demanding 13-14 mill per year on his next contract, when the season wasn't half way done. You don't think that would be a distraction? Contracts are business as usual, but when it's talked about in the press, you know it's permeating the locker room. Just look at what it did with OBJ in NY. It wasn't just about pushing a 3rd round comp up a year sooner like I've seen a few say, we have so much cap room next year, with the moves possible, it's likely there would be zero comp pick in 2020, just like there's been zero comp picks the last few years. For too long, this team got zero back from guys we let walk away. Now we're getting value for someone who we knew was going to be gone.

Most of you said this team would struggle to win 4 games, yet NOW they're giving up? I thought they gave up prior to the season starting? We knew they were relying on Ansah for a pass rush and they find a way to get to the qb. We knew the LB core was weak, yet they've been productive. I thoroughly respect everyone's opinion and analysis here, year after year, but we've all been wrong over and over. Forgive me if I just wait and see just how much giving up this team does. I've seen this team fight harder this season than they have in most of the years I've watched this team. They haven't been giving up and I don't see them giving up now because of Tate. Is the season lost? Not yet.


November 1st, 2018, 11:11 am
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Post Re: Tate a goner?
njroar wrote:
Anytime a new coaching staff is brought in, there's going to be changes. Just because the team was not as good as it should have been, doesn't mean it was just as good the following season. There's always too much turnover year to year to expect the same results.

The more I thought about it, the more I see this as a move to get KJ the ball more, not another receiver. Yes, it allows Riddick to be on the field without bringing KJ off, but everyone's been arguing for KJ to be on the field more, and this does that.

I liked Tate. I liked the excitement he'd bring, I loved his YAC. I hated how he gave up on plays. I hated how when he gave up on plays, it trickled to other players doing the same. Effort and hustle is contagious. So is lack of it. He was already demanding 13-14 mill per year on his next contract, when the season wasn't half way done. You don't think that would be a distraction? Contracts are business as usual, but when it's talked about in the press, you know it's permeating the locker room. Just look at what it did with OBJ in NY. It wasn't just about pushing a 3rd round comp up a year sooner like I've seen a few say, we have so much cap room next year, with the moves possible, it's likely there would be zero comp pick in 2020, just like there's been zero comp picks the last few years. For too long, this team got zero back from guys we let walk away. Now we're getting value for someone who we knew was going to be gone.

Most of you said this team would struggle to win 4 games, yet NOW they're giving up? I thought they gave up prior to the season starting? We knew they were relying on Ansah for a pass rush and they find a way to get to the qb. We knew the LB core was weak, yet they've been productive. I thoroughly respect everyone's opinion and analysis here, year after year, but we've all been wrong over and over. Forgive me if I just wait and see just how much giving up this team does. I've seen this team fight harder this season than they have in most of the years I've watched this team. They haven't been giving up and I don't see them giving up now because of Tate. Is the season lost? Not yet.



Agree. We're not even to the halfway point. I have high expectations that the Lions could turn the corner and make a run to contend for the division. Losing one player isn't giving up. Gaining a premium draft pick for a 9 game player you weren't going to re-sign is brilliance. Expecting the Lions would get a premium draft pick as compensation is foolish. I fully expect they'll be players in free agency after the season, depending on who they sign will impact compensation, and any they would get gets punted down the road a year. The team is going through a transition with the new coaching staff, it will take some time before we truly see what we'll have. Patience. Expecting the Lions to automatically transform overnight isn't fair. Patricia deserves times to fully implement his program with players he wants. Quinn is doing a fine job, and should be given plenty of rope. Worst he can do is hang himself, and around here we've seen that done before.


November 1st, 2018, 2:28 pm
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Joined: November 28th, 2007, 12:50 pm
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Post Re: Tate a goner?
UK Lion wrote:
The Legend wrote:
rao wrote:
Nice value for an 8 game rental. Glad to see a move being made that is all business with no sentimentality. Quinn has been effective in the 3rd round of the draft and they could really use a young talent at TE. Losing Tate is a noticeable loss for this season, but there are guys on the roster that can fill in adequately as a committee for that slot spot. TJ Jones was good last year and has filled in as the 3rd guy plenty of times since he was drafted, this season could improve for him with more playtime. This could also lead to some dual HB sets with Riddick and Johnson that could be interesting. I think Powell could turn out to be something now that he should be able to get game time against starting level players for the rest of the season. It also means he should be active and the Lions can avoid letting Abdullah ever carry the ball again.


Its not sentimentality, Quinn is giving up on yet another season when his team is right there. Is he ever going to go for it? Its like he s striving for mediocrity and just hoping the Lions will "run into one" one of these years. Hopefully we will start seeing some chips go on the table.

Having made a coaching change specifically because this roster was apparently good enough, but the previous coaching staff were not getting them over the hump, it makes no sense at all to then make this roster worse for a future pick (that in reality, will just accelerate a pick one year).

rao: how does losing Tate this year make this team better for this season? It doesn't, it clearly makes it worse. If the Lions were 7-0 do you think Quinn makes this trade? It's clearly him saying this seasons is not going to be a SB season, so better to build for future years. Which makes everything he said back in Jan nonsense (which we all knew it was anyway).


First this doesn't just accelerate a pick, the Lions were going to have almost 30M in cap space next season before the trade. It's more likely they get no compensatory picks and even if they decided to just sit on 30M in cap space they wouldn't be getting a 3rd rd pick for losing Tate.

I at no point said the team was better after the trade. Trading for a future pick doesn't mean you are throwing away your season. I do think Quinn would have made the trade because it's a 3rd round pick for a 30yr old slot receiver with half a season left on his contract. I keep seeing this thing about if Quinn thought the roster was good enough why would he trade for the future. Well perhaps he thinks the team is good enough to still make a run without a 3rd talented receiver and the value is good enough to move a player from a strong position group without losing too much of that strength.


November 1st, 2018, 2:57 pm
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Post Re: Tate a goner?
Even if the Lions snuck into the playoffs they don't have the personnel to do much damage once they get there. Matty P still needs pieces on defense to make this team a contender. As such, getting a 3rd for a WR who wasn't going to resign with the team is very good value. I like Tate, but this deal given their situation was too good to pass up.

Good move IMO.

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November 2nd, 2018, 11:46 am
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Post Re: Tate a goner?
rao wrote:
UK Lion wrote:
The Legend wrote:
rao wrote:
Nice value for an 8 game rental. Glad to see a move being made that is all business with no sentimentality. Quinn has been effective in the 3rd round of the draft and they could really use a young talent at TE. Losing Tate is a noticeable loss for this season, but there are guys on the roster that can fill in adequately as a committee for that slot spot. TJ Jones was good last year and has filled in as the 3rd guy plenty of times since he was drafted, this season could improve for him with more playtime. This could also lead to some dual HB sets with Riddick and Johnson that could be interesting. I think Powell could turn out to be something now that he should be able to get game time against starting level players for the rest of the season. It also means he should be active and the Lions can avoid letting Abdullah ever carry the ball again.


Its not sentimentality, Quinn is giving up on yet another season when his team is right there. Is he ever going to go for it? Its like he s striving for mediocrity and just hoping the Lions will "run into one" one of these years. Hopefully we will start seeing some chips go on the table.

Having made a coaching change specifically because this roster was apparently good enough, but the previous coaching staff were not getting them over the hump, it makes no sense at all to then make this roster worse for a future pick (that in reality, will just accelerate a pick one year).

rao: how does losing Tate this year make this team better for this season? It doesn't, it clearly makes it worse. If the Lions were 7-0 do you think Quinn makes this trade? It's clearly him saying this seasons is not going to be a SB season, so better to build for future years. Which makes everything he said back in Jan nonsense (which we all knew it was anyway).


First this doesn't just accelerate a pick, the Lions were going to have almost 30M in cap space next season before the trade. It's more likely they get no compensatory picks and even if they decided to just sit on 30M in cap space they wouldn't be getting a 3rd rd pick for losing Tate.

I at no point said the team was better after the trade. Trading for a future pick doesn't mean you are throwing away your season. I do think Quinn would have made the trade because it's a 3rd round pick for a 30yr old slot receiver with half a season left on his contract. I keep seeing this thing about if Quinn thought the roster was good enough why would he trade for the future. Well perhaps he thinks the team is good enough to still make a run without a 3rd talented receiver and the value is good enough to move a player from a strong position group without losing too much of that strength.



From what I read this morning, it appears the Lions could have more 40 million in cap room.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports ... 844704002/


November 2nd, 2018, 12:21 pm
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Joined: November 28th, 2007, 12:50 pm
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Post Re: Tate a goner?
liontrax wrote:
rao wrote:
UK Lion wrote:
The Legend wrote:
rao wrote:
Nice value for an 8 game rental. Glad to see a move being made that is all business with no sentimentality. Quinn has been effective in the 3rd round of the draft and they could really use a young talent at TE. Losing Tate is a noticeable loss for this season, but there are guys on the roster that can fill in adequately as a committee for that slot spot. TJ Jones was good last year and has filled in as the 3rd guy plenty of times since he was drafted, this season could improve for him with more playtime. This could also lead to some dual HB sets with Riddick and Johnson that could be interesting. I think Powell could turn out to be something now that he should be able to get game time against starting level players for the rest of the season. It also means he should be active and the Lions can avoid letting Abdullah ever carry the ball again.


Its not sentimentality, Quinn is giving up on yet another season when his team is right there. Is he ever going to go for it? Its like he s striving for mediocrity and just hoping the Lions will "run into one" one of these years. Hopefully we will start seeing some chips go on the table.

Having made a coaching change specifically because this roster was apparently good enough, but the previous coaching staff were not getting them over the hump, it makes no sense at all to then make this roster worse for a future pick (that in reality, will just accelerate a pick one year).

rao: how does losing Tate this year make this team better for this season? It doesn't, it clearly makes it worse. If the Lions were 7-0 do you think Quinn makes this trade? It's clearly him saying this seasons is not going to be a SB season, so better to build for future years. Which makes everything he said back in Jan nonsense (which we all knew it was anyway).


First this doesn't just accelerate a pick, the Lions were going to have almost 30M in cap space next season before the trade. It's more likely they get no compensatory picks and even if they decided to just sit on 30M in cap space they wouldn't be getting a 3rd rd pick for losing Tate.

I at no point said the team was better after the trade. Trading for a future pick doesn't mean you are throwing away your season. I do think Quinn would have made the trade because it's a 3rd round pick for a 30yr old slot receiver with half a season left on his contract. I keep seeing this thing about if Quinn thought the roster was good enough why would he trade for the future. Well perhaps he thinks the team is good enough to still make a run without a 3rd talented receiver and the value is good enough to move a player from a strong position group without losing too much of that strength.



From what I read this morning, it appears the Lions could have more 40 million in cap room.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports ... 844704002/


I'm not surprised my estimate is much lower, I was going off what I remembered from a few weeks back. Quinn has been great at managing the cap, keeping the team with the option to sign a big FA every off-season. Ansah became their big FA this season because they had to give Matty P a chance with him, but we will probably see something similar to Quinn's first season with the money they are going to have. There is also a lot of guys on the roster that can be cut with little dead money, so there is room to make even more space.


November 2nd, 2018, 4:05 pm
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Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
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Post Re: Tate a goner?
Great with the cap? I dont understand the praise. Anyone can keep a team under the salary cap by not going after premium talent and plodding forward with an average roster year after year. I see Quinn as being so cap cautious that its become prohibitive of him improving the team. The NFL cap is malleable and the Lions dont use that to there advantage while other teams do. His best FA signing this past year was Devon Kennard who fits the new system better than Tahir Whitehead but is about the same talent level maybe a bit better. Sylvester Williams, Deshawn Shead, Christian Jones, Luke Wilsson, Levine Toilolo, etc - these were all a bunch of nibbles in FA at stop gap type players. Quinn did not make a serious attempt at improving the roster in free agency. His team is no better despite a supposed upgrade in coaching and what most would call an outstanding early return on his draft. Building through the draft is financially sound but it occurs at a snail's pace and its difficult to do without an abundance of draft picks. Quinn s had a few extra late picks but really not enough extra premium picks to try to turn them into a champion solely through the draft. For one, his drafting style is relatively conservative. He is making safe picks but where does he get his star players when he uses free agency mostly to fill out the roster? Second, he doesnt trade back to pick up extra picks like he learned in New England. I find this especially puzzling when combined with Quinn's tendency to use FA only for replacements not upgrades. Where does he think the improvement is going to come from? Without many extra picks, building this way means your team is roughly staying at about the same talent level year to year. As soon as you start making progress then you have to start paying the players you drafted. Quinn will have money to spend but he will also have to consider getting some extension deals done for Decker, Ashawn Robinson and Graham Glasgow. Then of course, he ll feed us the same line he did this past season that re-signing his own guy (Ansah) was his big FA signing. Three years in a row of being a couple aggressive moves from having a contending team and Quinn just cant pull the trigger to get deals done.


November 5th, 2018, 7:10 am
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