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 #8 Over all. 
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Post Re: #8 Over all.
As good of a player as Flowers is, I dont think he s as good as Ansah when healthy. So he s still an upgrade bc he figures to play a lot more but a speed edge defender is what Im hoping for. Flowers can get pressure but he is not that and the Lions dont have a speed rush unless they are blitzing Davis or someone from the secondary. Im not seeing an OL player thats a difference maker there. Hate to say it but I have a feeling they might go TE here. Hockenson is an all around package rather than a specialized one like Ebron so I see it turning out better for the Lions if they go that route and I could see Quinn doing it. Personally I like to see the first rounders go towards the traditionally most important positions like QB, DE, LT, and maybe CB. Gary might be the best available out of that group for the Lions and has some versatility to his game that would make him a good fit also.


March 22nd, 2019, 11:25 pm
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Post Re: #8 Over all.
The Legend wrote:
As good of a player as Flowers is, I dont think he s as good as Ansah when healthy. So he s still an upgrade bc he figures to play a lot more but a speed edge defender is what Im hoping for. Flowers can get pressure but he is not that and the Lions dont have a speed rush unless they are blitzing Davis or someone from the secondary. Im not seeing an OL player thats a difference maker there. Hate to say it but I have a feeling they might go TE here. Hockenson is an all around package rather than a specialized one like Ebron so I see it turning out better for the Lions if they go that route and I could see Quinn doing it. Personally I like to see the first rounders go towards the traditionally most important positions like QB, DE, LT, and maybe CB. Gary might be the best available out of that group for the Lions and has some versatility to his game that would make him a good fit also.


I can see Hockenson too. And you know, depending on who's still there, you wouldn't hear a peep from me if that was the pick. Like you said, Hockenson is the complete package at TE, not a specialized one like Ebron. Stafford has not had that always reliable TE since he was drafted. I think of guys like Heath Miller. Like Jason Witten. Guys that their QBs can always rely on. I see Hockeson as being that type of player.

The reason I have that feeling about Oliver is it just seems to me, or maybe I have a feeling about this too, is that when Quinn got here he just went all out boosting the O-line. Didn't just add Decker and call it a day. I just feel like maybe we traded for Snacks, re-signed Okwara, signed Flowers, maybe hes thinking he can take it even one more step and draft a guy like Oliver and instead of giving the D-line a boost, he feels he could give it a transformation into an elite group.

I could also be full of **** here too. Just makes sense in my head anyway.


March 23rd, 2019, 12:36 am
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Post Re: #8 Over all.
kdsberman wrote:
The Legend wrote:
As good of a player as Flowers is, I dont think he s as good as Ansah when healthy. So he s still an upgrade bc he figures to play a lot more but a speed edge defender is what Im hoping for. Flowers can get pressure but he is not that and the Lions dont have a speed rush unless they are blitzing Davis or someone from the secondary. Im not seeing an OL player thats a difference maker there. Hate to say it but I have a feeling they might go TE here. Hockenson is an all around package rather than a specialized one like Ebron so I see it turning out better for the Lions if they go that route and I could see Quinn doing it. Personally I like to see the first rounders go towards the traditionally most important positions like QB, DE, LT, and maybe CB. Gary might be the best available out of that group for the Lions and has some versatility to his game that would make him a good fit also.


I can see Hockenson too. And you know, depending on who's still there, you wouldn't hear a peep from me if that was the pick. Like you said, Hockenson is the complete package at TE, not a specialized one like Ebron. Stafford has not had that always reliable TE since he was drafted. I think of guys like Heath Miller. Like Jason Witten. Guys that their QBs can always rely on. I see Hockeson as being that type of player.

The reason I have that feeling about Oliver is it just seems to me, or maybe I have a feeling about this too, is that when Quinn got here he just went all out boosting the O-line. Didn't just add Decker and call it a day. I just feel like maybe we traded for Snacks, re-signed Okwara, signed Flowers, maybe hes thinking he can take it even one more step and draft a guy like Oliver and instead of giving the D-line a boost, he feels he could give it a transformation into an elite group.



I could also be full of **** here too. Just makes sense in my head anyway.


With Flowers, Okwara, Harrison, Hand, Robinson, we're already on the cusp of being an elite group, at least on paper if they perform as well as they were at the end of last season. But there's nothing wrong with adding another log to the fire eh? With Kennard, Davis, Jones at LB and little else, to me that would be the position group in need of an infusion. Hey, maybe Devin White as many have alluded to for our pick, will indeed be a solid addition to improving the quality and depth of our line-backing group. My preference would be someone more like Josh Allen, an OLB/EDGE type that is as comfortable playing in space as rushing the pocket.


March 23rd, 2019, 12:14 pm
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Post Re: #8 Over all.
liontrax wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
The Legend wrote:
As good of a player as Flowers is, I dont think he s as good as Ansah when healthy. So he s still an upgrade bc he figures to play a lot more but a speed edge defender is what Im hoping for. Flowers can get pressure but he is not that and the Lions dont have a speed rush unless they are blitzing Davis or someone from the secondary. Im not seeing an OL player thats a difference maker there. Hate to say it but I have a feeling they might go TE here. Hockenson is an all around package rather than a specialized one like Ebron so I see it turning out better for the Lions if they go that route and I could see Quinn doing it. Personally I like to see the first rounders go towards the traditionally most important positions like QB, DE, LT, and maybe CB. Gary might be the best available out of that group for the Lions and has some versatility to his game that would make him a good fit also.


I can see Hockenson too. And you know, depending on who's still there, you wouldn't hear a peep from me if that was the pick. Like you said, Hockenson is the complete package at TE, not a specialized one like Ebron. Stafford has not had that always reliable TE since he was drafted. I think of guys like Heath Miller. Like Jason Witten. Guys that their QBs can always rely on. I see Hockeson as being that type of player.

The reason I have that feeling about Oliver is it just seems to me, or maybe I have a feeling about this too, is that when Quinn got here he just went all out boosting the O-line. Didn't just add Decker and call it a day. I just feel like maybe we traded for Snacks, re-signed Okwara, signed Flowers, maybe hes thinking he can take it even one more step and draft a guy like Oliver and instead of giving the D-line a boost, he feels he could give it a transformation into an elite group.



I could also be full of **** here too. Just makes sense in my head anyway.


With Flowers, Okwara, Harrison, Hand, Robinson, we're already on the cusp of being an elite group, at least on paper if they perform as well as they were at the end of last season. But there's nothing wrong with adding another log to the fire eh? With Kennard, Davis, Jones at LB and little else, to me that would be the position group in need of an infusion. Hey, maybe Devin White as many have alluded to for our pick, will indeed be a solid addition to improving the quality and depth of our line-backing group. My preference would be someone more like Josh Allen, an OLB/EDGE type that is as comfortable playing in space as rushing the pocket.


You do make a good point about the rest of the D-line. Josh Allen would be nice, I just see almost zero chance he makes it to 8.


March 23rd, 2019, 8:00 pm
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Post Re: #8 Over all.
Quote:
With Flowers, Okwara, Harrison, Hand, Robinson, we're already on the cusp of being an elite group, at least on paper if they perform as well as they were at the end of last season. But there's nothing wrong with adding another log to the fire eh? With Kennard, Davis, Jones at LB and little else, to me that would be the position group in need of an infusion. Hey, maybe Devin White as many have alluded to for our pick, will indeed be a solid addition to improving the quality and depth of our line-backing group. My preference would be someone more like Josh Allen, an OLB/EDGE type that is as comfortable playing in space as rushing the pocket.


Im just not seeing that really as an elite group on the DL. They have to be able to generate pressure on the QB from that group and they were pretty good when they had Ansah on the field last season but Flowers while good isnt the same type of player as Ansah. The Lions have a group that can contain the edge and bounce things to a different gap but they dont really have players that are going to generate a lot of pressure independent of good coverage in the secondary or blitz calls behind them. I think the grouping fits the type of defense fits what Patricia wants but on 3rd and 7 you dont want to hope for a coverage sack you want guys that can get upfield and collapse that pocket. Perhaps they are "on the cusp" but that means adding a high level player - I dont think it becomes elite just waiting for Okwara and Hand to develop more. I think Robinson probably wont get an extension in Detroit - based on how they utilized him most of last year - unless he turned a corner with the coaching staff.

Your preference of Josh Allen would be a best case scenario, he is a speed edge rusher - Im not really considering him part of the LB group because he s mostly going to be playing on the LOS. He could have a hybrid role and would probably end up taking a lot of snaps from Kennard, who really plays the position that should be generating the pressures. I just see Allen as a far different player than Devin White, an off the ball linebacker. If they take White than Jarrad Davis is probably moving outside. White is the instinctive MLB that can also cover that Bob Quinn was hoping Jarrad Davis could turn into. Could free up Davis for some other opportunities as he showed quite a bit of promise rushing the passer last year, probably the best part of his game as he s been unreliable vs the run and in coverage. Christian Jones who looked like he was figuring it out down the stretch would be out of some snaps.


March 24th, 2019, 9:38 am
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Post Re: #8 Over all.
The Legend wrote:
Quote:
With Flowers, Okwara, Harrison, Hand, Robinson, we're already on the cusp of being an elite group, at least on paper if they perform as well as they were at the end of last season. But there's nothing wrong with adding another log to the fire eh? With Kennard, Davis, Jones at LB and little else, to me that would be the position group in need of an infusion. Hey, maybe Devin White as many have alluded to for our pick, will indeed be a solid addition to improving the quality and depth of our line-backing group. My preference would be someone more like Josh Allen, an OLB/EDGE type that is as comfortable playing in space as rushing the pocket.


Im just not seeing that really as an elite group on the DL. They have to be able to generate pressure on the QB from that group and they were pretty good when they had Ansah on the field last season but Flowers while good isnt the same type of player as Ansah. The Lions have a group that can contain the edge and bounce things to a different gap but they dont really have players that are going to generate a lot of pressure independent of good coverage in the secondary or blitz calls behind them. I think the grouping fits the type of defense fits what Patricia wants but on 3rd and 7 you dont want to hope for a coverage sack you want guys that can get upfield and collapse that pocket. Perhaps they are "on the cusp" but that means adding a high level player - I dont think it becomes elite just waiting for Okwara and Hand to develop more. I think Robinson probably wont get an extension in Detroit - based on how they utilized him most of last year - unless he turned a corner with the coaching staff.

Your preference of Josh Allen would be a best case scenario, he is a speed edge rusher - Im not really considering him part of the LB group because he s mostly going to be playing on the LOS. He could have a hybrid role and would probably end up taking a lot of snaps from Kennard, who really plays the position that should be generating the pressures. I just see Allen as a far different player than Devin White, an off the ball linebacker. If they take White than Jarrad Davis is probably moving outside. White is the instinctive MLB that can also cover that Bob Quinn was hoping Jarrad Davis could turn into. Could free up Davis for some other opportunities as he showed quite a bit of promise rushing the passer last year, probably the best part of his game as he s been unreliable vs the run and in coverage. Christian Jones who looked like he was figuring it out down the stretch would be out of some snaps.


Flowers > Ansah in every possible way. Ansah was speed rush and that's it. Flowers has the most versatile combination of moves at the 0 technique of any end right now. You're confusing how NE used him (containment first) to his abilities. You just need to watch the tape and see he could speed rush effectively if that's his job. His acceleration after containment was impressive. He led the league in pressures. People pay much attention to sacks while the pressure is the real factor. You also have to take into account the system used, especially since we used multiple fronts last seasons. Ina 4-3, the ends generate the pressure. In a 3-4, the OLB's generate the pressure. Versatile defenders will make the DL a threat regardless of who we match up against. That's why i still believe the pick will either be White, so both can mix up the rush and cover duties or Greedy, to give the DL more time to get pressure. I'm still leaning CB, since QBs are getting rid of the ball faster, the secondary is more important than ever.


March 24th, 2019, 2:51 pm
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Post Re: #8 Over all.
Containment while pressuring is what they seem to be striving for. I don't think White is the answer to any LB deficiencies we have. If you want a smaller of the ball backer just take Devin Bush. You can get him later, he's proven in coverage and can rush the passer as well. The bigger OLB/EDGE players I have hopes they'll draft aren't just one trick pony's. The ability to play some coverage duties as well as rush when needed. I don't see Kennard displaying much in that department, maybe I'm wrong. As for Robinson, I think he was finally starting show what we hoped he would be by the end of last season. Guess we'll find out next season. Going to be a fun draft. Do we go D or TE?


March 24th, 2019, 3:30 pm
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Post Re: #8 Over all.
liontrax wrote:
Containment while pressuring is what they seem to be striving for. I don't think White is the answer to any LB deficiencies we have. If you want a smaller of the ball backer just take Devin Bush. You can get him later, he's proven in coverage and can rush the passer as well. The bigger OLB/EDGE players I have hopes they'll draft aren't just one trick pony's. The ability to play some coverage duties as well as rush when needed. I don't see Kennard displaying much in that department, maybe I'm wrong. As for Robinson, I think he was finally starting show what we hoped he would be by the end of last season. Guess we'll find out next season. Going to be a fun draft. Do we go D or TE?


I thought Robinson was playing well most of the season but his snapcounts suggested they (Lions staff) werent happy with his game. Something more must be going on and they may just not like how he goes about his business.

I agree that we should be picking from the DE/OLB type players or maybe the DE type players (Gary) rather than the off the ball players. I d love it if they got Josh Allen (not going to happen), pretty disappointed if they take another like J. Davis (D White even though better than Davis, love Bush but dont really want him at his draft projection either) in round 1. Kennard while a solid player doesnt seem to be a playmaker at a position that potentially could be wreaking havoc, causing turnovers; I think they need to get more explosive at that spot and this draft is an opportunity for that.


March 25th, 2019, 11:48 pm
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Post Re: #8 Over all.
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Flowers > Ansah in every possible way. Ansah was speed rush and that's it. Flowers has the most versatile combination of moves at the 0 technique of any end right now. You're confusing how NE used him (containment first) to his abilities. You just need to watch the tape and see he could speed rush effectively if that's his job. His acceleration after containment was impressive. He led the league in pressures. People pay much attention to sacks while the pressure is the real factor. You also have to take into account the system used, especially since we used multiple fronts last seasons. Ina 4-3, the ends generate the pressure. In a 3-4, the OLB's generate the pressure. Versatile defenders will make the DL a threat regardless of who we match up against. That's why i still believe the pick will either be White, so both can mix up the rush and cover duties or Greedy, to give the DL more time to get pressure. I'm still leaning CB, since QBs are getting rid of the ball faster, the secondary is more important than ever.


They are just different players. I think Flowers is an excellent player but if Harrison s coming off the field so Flowers can inside rush than it will help to have a stud on the outside and thats what Im looking for. Flowers is getting his pressures from all over the line, he s not beating LTs every time to get those pressures like Ansah. Flowers has exceptional hands, leverage and reaction skills but not the same level of explosive athlete that Ansah is or even some of these guys available in this draft are. These guys come at a premium cost, generally arent being made available in free agency, the draft seems loaded with DEs/OLBs and Lions hopefully are not drafting high enough to get this opportunity again anytime soon.


March 26th, 2019, 12:48 am
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Post Re: #8 Over all.
The Legend wrote:
liontrax wrote:
Containment while pressuring is what they seem to be striving for. I don't think White is the answer to any LB deficiencies we have. If you want a smaller of the ball backer just take Devin Bush. You can get him later, he's proven in coverage and can rush the passer as well. The bigger OLB/EDGE players I have hopes they'll draft aren't just one trick pony's. The ability to play some coverage duties as well as rush when needed. I don't see Kennard displaying much in that department, maybe I'm wrong. As for Robinson, I think he was finally starting show what we hoped he would be by the end of last season. Guess we'll find out next season. Going to be a fun draft. Do we go D or TE?


I thought Robinson was playing well most of the season but his snapcounts suggested they (Lions staff) werent happy with his game. Something more must be going on and they may just not like how he goes about his business.

I agree that we should be picking from the DE/OLB type players or maybe the DE type players (Gary) rather than the off the ball players. I d love it if they got Josh Allen (not going to happen), pretty disappointed if they take another like J. Davis (D White even though better than Davis, love Bush but dont really want him at his draft projection either) in round 1. Kennard while a solid player doesnt seem to be a playmaker at a position that potentially could be wreaking havoc, causing turnovers; I think they need to get more explosive at that spot and this draft is an opportunity for that.


Hoping it's not Gary. Great tool box but to me totally underachieved considering the level of competition he faced. As skilled as he supposedly is why wasn't he getting 10-15 sacks a year?
Was it effort? Does he want to work to become what he should be, or does he think he's already arrived?
Agree, it would be nice to have an effective and consitant edge presence.


March 26th, 2019, 6:47 pm
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Post Re: #8 Over all.
Whats everyones thoughts on Jonah Williams?

Daniel Jermiah recently mocked him to Detroit and had a lot of good things to say about him. He's a player this year that many people have amazing things to say about him and the same amount of people have bad things to say. "He's the next great offensive lineman", and "I wouldnt spend a 1st round pick on him". I'm torn. With the defensive players most likely available, i wouldnt prefer him being the pick. But if they believe he can be a solid piece to our O-line, than by all means take him. I just dont like a projected OG to a player thats never played a single down at guard in college.


April 17th, 2019, 9:14 am
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Post Re: #8 Over all.
kdsberman wrote:
Whats everyones thoughts on Jonah Williams?

Daniel Jermiah recently mocked him to Detroit and had a lot of good things to say about him. He's a player this year that many people have amazing things to say about him and the same amount of people have bad things to say. "He's the next great offensive lineman", and "I wouldnt spend a 1st round pick on him". I'm torn. With the defensive players most likely available, i wouldnt prefer him being the pick. But if they believe he can be a solid piece to our O-line, than by all means take him. I just dont like a projected OG to a player thats never played a single down at guard in college.


Agree! I'd bet that if you asked him he'd say he's a tackle not a guard. I don't see the value of taking another tackle that high with Crosby already there. He's proven to be a good get as a 5th round possible steal, and should only get better. Lots of guards to be had this year, and they don't have to get a plug and play for the position as there is enough depth to be given time to develop.
For me, if they're not going defense with this pick, can't believe I'm going to say it, take the TE instead of the tackle. I just think it's better value, although I'm not on board with the idea. Heck, I think I'd rather they reach on someone defensive rather than take either of those spots.


April 17th, 2019, 9:59 am
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Post Re: #8 Over all.
liontrax wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
Whats everyones thoughts on Jonah Williams?

Daniel Jermiah recently mocked him to Detroit and had a lot of good things to say about him. He's a player this year that many people have amazing things to say about him and the same amount of people have bad things to say. "He's the next great offensive lineman", and "I wouldnt spend a 1st round pick on him". I'm torn. With the defensive players most likely available, i wouldnt prefer him being the pick. But if they believe he can be a solid piece to our O-line, than by all means take him. I just dont like a projected OG to a player thats never played a single down at guard in college.


Agree! I'd bet that if you asked him he'd say he's a tackle not a guard. I don't see the value of taking another tackle that high with Crosby already there. He's proven to be a good get as a 5th round possible steal, and should only get better. Lots of guards to be had this year, and they don't have to get a plug and play for the position as there is enough depth to be given time to develop.
For me, if they're not going defense with this pick, can't believe I'm going to say it, take the TE instead of the tackle. I just think it's better value, although I'm not on board with the idea. Heck, I think I'd rather they reach on someone defensive rather than take either of those spots.


Ill come right out and say it, i would have NO issue with them taking Hockenson at 8, assuming there isnt a good defensive player available.


April 17th, 2019, 12:37 pm
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Post Re: #8 Over all.
Is it liar liar pants on fire at Quinn's presser yesterday?
He says " There’s a lot of defensive players in this draft that might not fit the exact model of the size, speed for each position,"
Is he priming the faithful for a selection of Ed Oliver a smaller DT? Or maybe one of the Devin's (White or Bush) who aren't exactly in the mold of bigger backers that MP might prefer?
Could be total BS. Direction and misdirection. One things for sure when it comes to the draft. We never know what he's going to do. Ain't this fun? Pins and needles. LoL!


April 19th, 2019, 10:50 am
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Post Re: #8 Over all.
liontrax wrote:
Is it liar liar pants on fire at Quinn's presser yesterday?
He says " There’s a lot of defensive players in this draft that might not fit the exact model of the size, speed for each position,"
Is he priming the faithful for a selection of Ed Oliver a smaller DT? Or maybe one of the Devin's (White or Bush) who aren't exactly in the mold of bigger backers that MP might prefer?
Could be total BS. Direction and misdirection. One things for sure when it comes to the draft. We never know what he's going to do. Ain't this fun? Pins and needles. LoL!


I dont value any thing he said yesterday. Quinn does such a great job hiding his plans that I don't believe a word he says (in a good way). While I dont think we will trade up, I also dont believe Quinn when he said hes not planning on moving up. And his "size" comments could mean a bunch of players - Devin Bush, Brian Burns, Jonah Williams (arm length), Ed Oliver. I think everything he says is a tactic.

Next Thursday is going to be exciting. I sure am glad they do the Draft like they used to where every pick is a surprise and no clues are given leading up to the pick announcement.


April 19th, 2019, 3:20 pm
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